Is there less work this year?

[rob in madrid]

Is it me or has the crisis really hit but by this time last year I was turning away work, this year I've still got large gaps in my week Not only that but alot of classes are only one day a week. So this year I've got a really wierd scheudle

Mondays all day 8-11, 2-4 5-6 7.30-9 

Thursdays 8-11-30

Fridays 7.30-9 at night

also alot of that is freelance which means I have to pay my own SS or 240 a month plus taxes.

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[SRedw]

Rob,

Sorry to hear about this.

I have heard from many people who are teaching English for academies or either freelance, that they ar enoticing companies cutting back and only the director and a select few having classes.  Many people will have to take classes on their own and pay for them theirselves.

Good luck,

Shawn

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[rob in madrid]

a friend mentioned as well with the crisis many expats who normally might not teach english (expat wives for example) are now teaching English, so it's very possible there are more teachers chasing less work. not a pleasant thought.

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[SRedw]

You're quite right, Rob.  There are a lot of teachers and not that many positions out there.  This is why I am glad that I am sticking with the bilingual program position.  Have to stay where the money is.

Shawn

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[Expat_teacher]

Interesting point there Rob. I have been feeling and seeing it myself. Like you, at this time last year I had my schedule set for practically the entire year (through June) but now I find myself having to work to get my clients back.

Apart from the competition of the Expat wives (no relation to me...hee hee) that you mention, I suspect that we are seeing competition coming from maybe the TEFL/CELTA schools. English speakers who are fleeing their countries to train to teach English in other parts of the world thinking that the situation isn't so bad in the sector. Spain is an attractive country to live in and my gut feeling is that there are a bunch of new teachers flooding the market every month.

I dunno. Maybe it's just my imagination. I get the feeling that people are less willing to part with their money...

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[SRedw]

I dunno. Maybe it's just my imagination. I get the feeling that people are less willing to part with their money...

I agree with this statement as well.  Now, I am finding that parents are willing to have their kids improve their Engish, so I have  few private classes with children and tht more than keeps me afloat.  I have let private classes with adults go and no longer work for academies.  I have had to change my private students focus to keep the money rolling.

Now, yes, Spain is attractive for many people and more and more backpackers are coming here to give it a go at English teaching.  The real blame starts with very little quality in the English teaching market here in Spain.  Then the academies that hire backpackers because they know that they can get them cheap and save money.  Human Resources who don't have a clue about language teaching and just believe everything that academies say.  It's a vicious cycle and one that has to stop soon.

Shawn

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[Irvinicus]

I think this point about quality is interesting, because I've seen it stateside working for a for-profit school.  You say it "has to stop soon", Shawn, but I'm not sure what you mean.  Who's going to stop it? 

As far as I can tell (after 3 years of teaching college-agers from various continents who came to the U.S.), the secret of the ESL industry is that student progress in English is often haphazard and only, at best, %50 dependent on the teacher or program they're  in (the other %50 depending on the student, although I feel this percentage is probably more like %70 percent). 

Half of the students at the school I was at didn't really realize they were in a very uneven, poorly organized program, and some genuinely loved it (depending a lot on which teacher they had).  I was only asked about my credentials once or twice among the scores of students who passed through my class.

I can't say that the industry as a whole seems terribly scrupulous, but, on the other hand, a lot of (young, college-age) students aren't terribly demanding, even when they've rearranged their lives to study in America.  So how demanding are students going to be when they aren't even leaving their neighborhood to get lessons?

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[SRedw]

You say it "has to stop soon", Shawn, but I'm not sure what you mean.  Who's going to stop it? 

Common sense.  I qoute myself:

The real blame starts with very little quality in the English teaching market here in Spain.  Then the academies that hire backpackers because they know that they can get them cheap and save money.  Human Resources who don't have a clue about language teaching and just believe everything that academies say.  It's a vicious cycle and one that has to stop soon.

To really stop it, it has to be done in Spain what was done in Vietnam.  The government stepped in and put an end to unqualified teachers teaching. 

I am speaking from the teachers point of view and this is why I NO LONGER work for academies and I love it.  Working at universities and doing my own thing has saved me from getting bored with teaching.  Teaching teachers is also great as well.

So, at the end of the day, we may never have the answers to the questions that we ask, but it shouldn't stop us from asking.

Shawn

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[lizziee]

You're very lucky, Shawn!

The market is incredibly quiet this year. I have a full timetable now, but it's taken some getting - and that's with four years experience, TEFL qualification and a BA (Hons) in English.

As for the state of English teaching, I despair. I see so many teachers who think printing off a newspaper article is preparation. There is no end goal and no objectives to meet. Just getting through a lesson seems to be enough.

Interesting what you said about Vietnam. But then there's the whole experience vs education argument . . .

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[RebeccaG]

I agree with Lizzie,

I think the market is definitely much more sluggish than this time last year. I am only just beginning to feel like I have a hold on all the groups that we manage at my office and the students who will be registering this year.

During the first half of September the phone was dead in the office. The start of the second half began to see some movement but now it has been non-stop both phone calls as well as walk-ins since last Wednesday. I guess people are waiting until the last minute to make any committment and are also waiting until they are paid.

As far as government intervention...for somethings you can take the American out of America but you cannot take America out of the American. I don't think the government should step in and control the market. Especially since it isn't capable of getting it's bilingual program properly managed. And as far as qualified is concerned....

I met my son's English teacher (public bilingual school) yesterday. Nice enough girl. Spanish with a marked British accent. However I cringed when I asked my son her name and he said he didn't know. Her response...

"Yes! You know! What my name? Come on, what my name? My name xxxxxx."

Uhhh....verb? This is a teacher qualified to teach in a bilingual school? No, we don't need the government deciding the qualfications of the teachers on the private market. That is what the market should decide.

Although it is a sad state of affairs when the best they can come up with is photocopies. Shame on the schools who hire those "teachers".

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[SRedw]

As far as government intervention...for somethings you can take the American out of America but you cannot take America out of the American. I don't think the government should step in and control the market. Especially since it isn't capable of getting it's bilingual program properly managed. And as far as qualified is concerned....

I met my son's English teacher (public bilingual school) yesterday. Nice enough girl. Spanish with a marked British accent. However I cringed when I asked my son her name and he said he didn't know. Her response...

"Yes! You know! What my name? Come on, what my name? My name xxxxxx."

Uhhh....verb? This is a teacher qualified to teach in a bilingual school? No, we don't need the government deciding the qualfications of the teachers on the private market. That is what the market should decide.

Although it is a sad state of affairs when the best they can come up with is photocopies. Shame on the schools who hire those "teachers".

I can't wait to tear into you, Becky, hehe.  Just kidding!  You bring up good points here.  Now, these people are qualified to teach in bilingual schools because they have passed state exams and this makes them more than qualified.  Who grades these exams, I don't have a clue.  Evidently, no one os grading speaking, but they do have to present a novel showing everything that they are going to teach, but not how they are going to teach it.  That's the problem.

If we leave the market to decide on qualifications for teachers, then nothing will change and academiy owners will continue bellyaching and crying about not finding qualified teachers.  Oh, well! We will have to agree to disagree about the whole qualification thing in the private market, and we are both adult enough to do that.

In the end, I don't ever see any change at all and I am pursuing my goal to get out of teaching as I am doing it now and step into another market.

Cheers,

Shawn

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[rob in madrid]

UPDATE: well rather surprisingly this is turning out to be my best year yet, I got a early visit from Santa this year in the from of some excellent hours. Pretty much fully booked 22 hours plus I have T-T mornings free. I think the change is that this year I'm automono so that opened alot more door to agencies that only take freelancers.

As to the quality of teaching I saw that myself, start of every new course I always do needs analysis with my students and one of the students gave me a detailed outline of how a good class should run. In asking about that it turned out their teacher last year was terrible.

I think poorly qualified teachers come from two things. Lack of training (the TEFL is really only 4 weeks which is barely enough and precious few academies provide ongoing training) and lack of experience. I'm going on 4 years and it's only this year that I feel that I'm pulling it all together.

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[MadridTeacher]

Hi Y'all,
Is there less work this year? I think it's clear to everyone that there are more teachers and fewer teaching jobs here. But, let's not get too depressed about it, OK? The boom was partly a con and so is the bust. It wasn't so good before and it's not so bad now. Not yet anyway. (  Give those incompetent politicians a chance.) There are still plenty of students who need classes out there and companies and schools who need teachers. This "the new normal" affects working class people a lot more than it does our clients. It's not like they can't afford what they pay us. Don't swallow that one! Even in the boom I had companies get bought out from under me or go through some sort of economic turmoil requiring that my fellow teachers and I look elsewhere. You have to adapt. That's the name of the game.
The other day when I was taking the advanced Spanish test at the Escuela Oficial de Idiomas (I passed . . . ahem) I met a British teacher who's teaching English in a public school. He'd done the oposicion and had even got 2 points by taking the CPE (Certificate of Proficiency from Campridge) - I'm still not sure I can believe that, but he said he didn't have any problem. What I mean is that survival here favors the determined, studious and innovative teacher. In other words, he who "adapts." This takes time. New teachers, especially those who take little time to study and work the market and its possibilities and opportunities, are always at a disadvantage which is why they tend to make less, and are taken advantage of.
Steven

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[Jonniboy]

Allow me to give an "outsider" perspective on this as someone no longer teaching in Spain. The crisis is relevant and does have an effect but only up to a point. Latvia, where I'm currently working, has been hit as hard as, if not more than Spain by events. Unemployment here is over 17% and the property boom bust spectacularly with properties worth 50% of what they were at the start of 2008. Yet I'm completely full (31.5 clock hours!) and most other teachers I know are in the same position. The crash seems to have made many students realise that there are few shortcuts to making a fast buck and buying property in the ludicrous belief that it will increase in value for ever isn't a way. More of them are investing in upgrading their skills of which language is a key one. There are more than enough students willing to pay the going rate (20 euro gross, 14 euro net per clock hour) that despite a median wage of around 500 euro a month net. The same doesn't appear to be happening in Spain. Why not?

I seriously do think that the underlying cause is that when push comes to shove, Spanish people in relative terms aren't really that bothered about learning foreign languages, with the result that when the economy is on the rocks they'll cut out such perceived "frills." Eurostat, the European commission's statistics agency had interesting findings: Spain ranks 22nd out of the 27 EU countries in terms of the percentage of people who are monolingual. http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_243_en.pdf

It's unclear whether that counts Catalan and Basque speakers as bilingual but even so it's not good. UK and Ireland were below Spain but they at least have the luxury of being English speaking countries. In the same publication, Spain ranked 24th out of 27 in terms of those who could speak English well enough to have a conversation. In terms of German, the second largest EU language, Spain was 27th or bottom. The percentage of those planning to improve their language skills in Spain was just 17% with only Portugal, Greece, Italy and Ireland having lower figures. Remember these are figures based on surveys from late 2007 when the Spanish economy was still in sound shape.

That was also my own first hand experience. Many parents sent their kids to English language mills even though they themselves could barely speak a word of English, so how could they judge the quality of the teachers there? Additionally as they were apparently not that bothered about learning it hardly set an example to the kids. A further problem is that in parts of Spain where Basque or Catalan are spoken, those languages seem to be favoured more by local employers, particularly regional governments, than international languages! Add to all this a lack of quality control and the oversupply of the respective labour market and it's not a situation that bodes well for serious teachers.

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[SRedw]

Jonniboy,

People can say what they want about the crisis and Spain and English teaching.  It's not affecting every English teacher here in Madrid.  I have my plat full and have to turn classes down, but then again I am staying with what brings in money and that's working with teenagers and parents who want their kids to succeed in English.  I have 3 of them and they are hard workers and show interest in English.  I am also working with a 7 year old and she is a joy to work with as well.

Since I am in a charter school, that's where the majority of my income comes from and I also work on Saturdays which helps to save for rainy days.

All in all, many people can complain about the crisis all they want and not having enough classes.  The key is to diversify and target different audiences to get a little from each.

Suerte,

Shawn

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[MadridTeacher]

Hi Jonniboy,

There are very serious students here as well. I've got a few who are paying 25 - 35 themselves. One's on unemployment. My plate's just as full as Shawn's I think, and I've turned quite a few people down despite being "unavailable". A lot of students are taking this opportunity to learn English. My unemployed one has to be studying 15 hours a week on his own at least. It might be easier to overgeneralize from the outside looking in. They don't all dance flamenco and fight bulls around here. There is serious work to be had with serious students, but things are clearly different than before.

The main difference is that there's less trust to go around now. I've had about 5 academies/schools default on their payments in the past year. Another one may be in the process of doing it now. "Can I pay in October? I'm having problems, can I pay next week?" etc. This is not cool! I haven't lost much, but imagine if your academy leads you on like this for a couple of months and before you know it, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I've had several teachers lately ask me to start a black list, but I can't because that sort of thing is illegal here as far as I know. I've read of, for example, a 60,000-euro fine to a big telecommunications firm for putting somebody on such a list.

I think this sort of "payment default thing" has been happening because big companies here as elsewhere are getting more support from the government and financial institutions, but small ones aren't getting nearly as much of that as before the crash. A lot of big clients (corporations, etc.) deliver an IOU and make payments here say after 3, 6 or 12 months. This is unheard of elsewhere in Europe. However, before this the banks would cash those IOUs (or pagarés as they are known here) at a low interest rate. Now they are not offering that as much anymore and that sort of policy dominoes throughout the economy. There are plenty of teachers who are still teaching the same students in a company as before but it's the students themselves who are paying for the classes, not the company. Unemployment is up to nearly 20% for lots of reasons and one is that the big employers are the small and medium sized companies, and even though they might have had work, they weren't able to get the financing to do it.

As a freelance teacher I tend to avoid working for companies or clients who take forever to pay (and now more), but I've had one client migrate to that status over the last year to where they're paying after as long as 3 months now. It hurts me obviously, but that sort of thing is more significant to small and medium sized companies which can't hold out for that long with all the bills they have especially given that companies can renege quite flippantly or nonchalantly here. That's something to consider very thoroughly when you're looking at prospective clients and employers. In my opinion, watch out! The judicial system here is overloaded at the moment and you might not be able to do anything about it if you get shorted. You have to make sure they have enough to pay you while they're waiting for months to get paid by their clients (your students' companies). If you think that they'll have to wait to pay you till they get paid themselves, then . . . think it over.

In short, what I mean to say is that it's not just that there's less work, it's that it's a lot less stable. That sort of distrust of the system is what "inspired" me to get 10 hours a week in a private university this year and I hope to grow that number in future. I  recommend teachers either hedge their bets (a mix of stable and unstable classes) or flee to safety.

Steven

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[Jonniboy]

Madridteacher, thanks for the input. I take your point that it can be as easy to overgeneralise but the overall impression I've had (two years in Valencia versus four plus years in Riga) is that the average Latvian is keener to improve his/her language skills that the average Spaniard. That doesn't mean of course that you won't get hard working students in Spain, it just means they'll be harder to find, especially in hard times and especially given greater competition from other teachers. Latvia is a bit of an acquired taste and me and a handful of other natives have it pretty good due to a lack of competition. As I speak Spanish I'm in an even better position since through a Spanish embassy contact I get students from there and one of them is one of my most reliable students - studies hard, always does homework, rarely cancels etc

As regards companies defaulting on payments, that does happen here as well, though since the market is obviously smaller than Madrid, word quickly gets around if language centres start messing teachers around. My pre-TEFL background is in credit management so I know all about the domino affect that you mention and unfortunately it is the big companies who are often the main culprits. Withdrawal of government funds for English courses has happened here too and I don't think it's been a completely bad thing. In one government institution I worked in last year through a language centre they cut the funding meaning that the company could no longer pay the language centre. The result was that I got a group of students minus the less motivated ones paying me directly.

Shawn, I'm glad to hear that it's going well for you. To be honest one of the things that stops me going back to Spain each year is that I'm choosy about who I teach - I hate teaching kiddies to put it bluntly and have all adults here. It just seems that currently if I went back there it would be a case of beggars can't be choosers so I'm staying put until the Spanish economy improves.

By the way, if it's any consolation temperatures in Riga are currently heading towards zero so if you're in Spain do count what blessings you have   

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[MadridTeacher]

I appreciate your info and opinions Jonniboy and Shawn. I agree with you about how seriously unambitious too many students tend to be here. What a shame!

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[SRedw]

I  recommend teachers either hedge their bets (a mix of stable and unstable classes) or flee to safety.

This is what I am doing.  My work in the charter schhol is stable and so are the Saturdays that I work.  My private students are what keeps cash in my hand every week.  So, in the end, Madridteacher and I are on the same page.

Shawn

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[MadridTeacher]

Yea . . . . We actually have (relatively speaking) slightly different means toward very similar ends, I think. I think it's interesting for new teachers to hear those of us who have been around for a while air those differences out. They're weighing the pros and cons and they just need to hear what the two sides (on just about anything and everything) have to say about it. But as you imply, on the grand scale of things, it probably all comes out in the wash.

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[SRedw]

So true.  What happens is that new teachers do need to read about how we managed to get to where we are today.  It takes hard work and proving yourself to get to where we are today.

I enjoy reading your posts.  Keep 'em comin'

Shawn

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[lizziee]

I think it's very unfair to dismiss the Spanish as students by comparing them to other countries such as Latvia. Historically, Spanish companies have had stronger links with South American companies, making the need to learn English irrelevant. These days, Spanish is the third-most spoken language in the world and many of my students (who try really really hard - in more than 4 years I've only had one student who didn't give a damn) who have travelled to the US to do business have said they didn't speak a word of English - from the taxi driver onwards they could speak Spanish. So in many ways, they're the same as the British - why bother to learn a different language when everyone speaks English/Spanish? Now, in Latvia, I would hazard a guess, the situation is a tad different so of course more people are wanting to learn English and trying hard.

But I repeat, I've had loads of students and only one didn't try to learn. On the whole, I would say Spanish students are just as committed to learning as others.

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[SRedw]

Lizziee,

We have to remember that everyone's experience is different and you can justify until you are blue in the face and people still won't agree with you.  In general, many of my students in "business English" classes were lazy and really didn't care.  Many were forced to be there and did not give a damn at all and didn't even try.  This is not to say that all of them were this way, but there were very few, in my experience, that even cared.  We all know that, in general, when one is forced to do something, that there is resistence there.  That cannot be denied.

Now, if we are talking about students in public and private schools, now that's a different story.  Many of them want to learn English and see it as a way to advance, but the way in which it is taught here in Spain, once again in general, deters many students from continuing to study it.  When a student just fill in the blank and has to translate, of course there is no enjoyment there.  For example, in the charter school where I am working, whenever I have the students just talk and not write, they don't know what to do.  They aren't used to someone just letting them talk and do communicative activities.

Before we even talk about students caring or not, let's get to the root of the problem and that is the way that languages are taught in Spain.  Let's not fool ourselves and put the cart before the horse.

Cheers,

Shawn

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[lizziee]

Before we even talk about students caring or not, let's get to the root of the problem and that is the way that languages are taught in Spain.  Let's not fool ourselves and put the cart before the horse.

I couldn't agree more with how badly languages are taught in Spain. I had two 14-year-olds who were doing their First and they used to correct their English teacher in school. Even then, the teacher spent 90% of the class speaking Spanish. Madness!

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[SRedw]

I couldn't agree more with you.  Students here in schools are so used to writing and filling in the blank that it's no wonder they can't speak.

I am working with one student to prepare him for First Certificate and he tells me that he doesn't speak in class at all and he enjoys classes with me because he enjoys speaking.  I even give him homework and he does it.

Little by little I see things changing, but it's going to take a while.

Shawn

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[rob in madrid]

Jonniboy you bring up an interesting point. While there are loads of foreigners and much foreign influence Spain is very much a closed society. The Spanish have very little (compared to other European countries) exposure to the outside world. Talk to people who've been here a long time and they will tell you that up to very recently Spain was a very closed country. Imagine no English films, no Carrefour or Lidls or any kind of imported products. And I think that influence still prevails. In talking to a long term teacher (20 plus years) she figures it will take another full generation before Spain becomes (in attitudes) as open society as northern Europe.

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[SRedw]

Rob in Madrid,

You have made a great point as well.  I was here in 2000 studying and when I came back in 2003 to live and work and in 2007 to start working in a bilingual school, let's just say that with each return, I saw how things were really changing.

Yes, it will take a generation to change it all.  I have patience.

Shawn

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