alert to americans teaching in spain

[bluebwoy]

Hey all,

 I just wanted to let people know that I got some really bad news today from my school. You may hear more about this soon. I\'m not sure. For those who know of the brighton school disaster that just happened (large english school just shut down in a scandal on the same level of the opening school debacle) reading up on it might give some perpective on my situation. As a result of this new scandal involving english schools there are supposedly going to major auditing by the spanish govt. of all english schools in spain. This may leave people without residency pretty much be out of luck in terms of teaching at schools.

  Basically what I understand is that if schools have or are caught with teachers without an official (legal) contract they can be fined heavily or even shut down. As a result I belive I will be losong my job as of the end of january because my boss can\'t have teachers without contract, much less illegal ones like myself. Is anybody else experiencing the same thing Its really kind of a blow right now. I guess I\'ll try to get some privates and se if I can work in a bar or something. Right now I just don\'t know......

anyway, asi es la vida [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif\"] [addsig]

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[Mochaccino]

Wow, Bluebwoy.  Thanks so much for the heads up.  This is really bad news for all of us. [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif\"] After reading many of the posts, many from you, I had started to feel more confident of making the move to Spain.  I had all but bought my ticket there and was just going to go for it.  Please keep us posted on how things go.  And, good luck to you!!



Take care, Michelle [addsig]

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[mlwalton]

Not to be redundant but yeah, WOW...this is really bad news.[IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_cry.gif\"]  Please keep us posted an let us know what happens....I may have to re-evaluate my plans to move there... [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_disbelief.gif\"] Buena suerte.



 adios,

Michelle [addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

hey all,

From what I can undestand (which may be all wrong by any account as its just what i\'ve been told) the govt is going to crack down on schools with illegal employees (i.e. no contract, illegal aliens, etc..). My boss is giving me till january 1st to find a way to get residency or else I will not be able to work any more this year for the school. I\'m going to try to get residency somehow (if anybody reads this and has some good advice i\'d really appreciate it!). Otherwise I\'m going to look for other types of employment right away.

My Boss seems to think I could be able to work next fall though..... after the heat on the schools is turned down a little. I\'ve asked some other teachers to give me some info so if they hear anything i\'ll try to pass it along if I can.

 To be honest I dont want to belive this whole thing has just come down. CAn someone out there tell me I\'m all wrong, please...

later [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_doh.gif\"] [addsig]

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[silo]

Joshua, here is some advice...start looking for a little senorita you get along with and get married. Or I can hook you up with the lawyer that specializes in immigration that I use.





[!-- BBcode auto-mailto start --][a href=\"mailto:Shiloh@mentamail.net\"]Shiloh@mentamail.net[/a][!-- BBCode auto-mailto end --] [addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

hey shiloh,

 Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I talked with another friend here and have some interesting news. As farr as finding work as a teacher i\'m sure there are some schools out there that aren\'t as afraid of the recent shakedown in progress. ( the boss at a school my friend works heard about it from my friend who heard it from me) Maybe it won\'t happen in a big way (i.e. lots of schools). Maybe I  can work at another school that isn\'t worried about the govt checking their school. I still don\'t know.

  What I do know is that I am losing my job at the school I work for. AS well I talked with a Lawyer from spain who told me that basically there is no way right now for me to gain residency other than getting married or winning the lottery, hahaha. If you want to see some more about residency apps go to [!-- BBCode auto-link start --][a href=\"http://www.spain-visas.com/Residence-permits-Stay-permits-pag6.htm\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.spain-visas.com/Residence-permits-Stay-permits-pag6.htm[/a][!-- BBCode auto-link end --]

He did say it is possible work while studying here on a student visa. That type of visa must be applied for from the u.s. though.

  Anyway I think I\'ll just try to find more work wherever I can.....  [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_worry.gif\"]

later

[addsig]

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[silo]

I guess I don\'t understand. As I read this, it tells me that all you need to do is apply for the residency and work visas. You can even submit the forms to the post offices. (I\'m sure it\'s not that easy, but sounds possible.) I\'m pretty glad I have a lawyer doing this for me, I would go insane trying to unravel so much red tape.





[!-- BBCode Quote Start --][TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%][TR][TD][font class=\"pn-sub\"]Quote:[/font][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][FONT class=\"pn-sub\"][BLOCKQUOTE]  Working for others (a firm or a person)



UPDATED 11.2.2002 - Ruled by the quota

Foreigners who are not citizens of the E.C.M. and want to perform some kind of

profitable activity, on their own or for others, have to apply both for a

work; and residence permit.





The kind of permit to be applied for depends on the type of profitable

activity which is going to be undertaken.



If the work is for others, the following permits must be applied for successively:



- Type B (initial): For a determined activity and geographic area .- Type B (updated): Permit allowing to carry out any activity in the

whole country.

- Type C : Permit allowing to carry out any activity in the

whole country.

 [/BLOCKQUOTE][/FONT][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][!-- BBCode Quote End --]





[!-- BBCode Quote Start --][TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%][TR][TD][font class=\"pn-sub\"]Quote:[/font][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][FONT class=\"pn-sub\"][BLOCKQUOTE] WHO CAN APPLY FOR A WORK PERMIT



The employer if the work activities are on behalf of others or if they are

carried out in the State border areas (TypeG)

- The representative of the firm, if the firm is not in the Spanish territory.

- The foreigner himself, if the job is on his own behalf, and in the case of a previous permit renewal.



 [/BLOCKQUOTE][/FONT][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][!-- BBCode Quote End --]



[!-- BBCode Quote Start --][TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%][TR][TD][font class=\"pn-sub\"]Quote:[/font][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][FONT class=\"pn-sub\"][BLOCKQUOTE] TO WHOM MUST WORK PERMITS BE SUBMITTED?



In Spain: to the Register of the corresponding Government Offices, to foreigner\'s offices, at migration offices,if the output of a work permit depends on them. They can also be submitted to the Register of any Administration Office if such office belongs to the State Administration as well as to any Administration of autonomous communities or local Administration Offices if the latter have signed the necessary agreement. They can also be submitted to Post Offices.  [/BLOCKQUOTE][/FONT][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][!-- BBCode Quote End --]



[addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

Hey Shiloh,

  From what my lawyer friend told me is that to apply for the work permit you need to have residency first. But to be honest I really hope you can do it.. The other conundrum I\'ve come acroos is that once you can work legally you need to get a business to give you a contract. With creating a contract the businesses have to pay social security which reduces the ammount they would have to pay you the perspective teacher. My boos told me that she would have to pay almost equal to what she pays me right now (17.00 euro) to pay for the social security in spain. It might behoove you to have a contract before you come. As well If you are planning on coming to Barcelona soon remember that over 200 teachers at brighton school lost their jobs a couple of weeks ago and the competition may be stiff. I migh have to split spain and head for greener pasture in Japan or something If I can\'t find some other job in the next two weeks.



sorry to be so pessimistic, I guess I\'m just bitter over my recent misfortune.

later [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_disbelief.gif\"]

Isn\'t it amazing how pertinent some of these emotive icons are?[addsig]

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[silo]

It might behoove you to have a contract before you come. As well If you are planning on coming to Barcelona soon remember that over 200 teachers at brighton school lost their jobs a couple of weeks ago and the competition may be stiff.

I will have my residency and visa all done when I get there...From what I understand, I have to wait 30 days before I can start working though which is good because I would like to polish up my spanish and catalan before I start interacting with the general citizenry. I kind of got down about going to Barcelona when I found out about the school fiasco, but after a little investigation I have discovered that I can do my current job from Spain for the same company I\'m working for in Utah right now (technology is great). Also, I know of many firms in BCN that are looking for English speaking AutoCAD users. Or, if worse comes to worse, I\'ll paint seashells and sell them to German tourists on La Rambla...those people will buy ANYTHING!!!!

sorry to be so pessimistic, I guess I\'m just bitter over my recent misfortune.

later

I would be pessimistic too...Spain is a great place and I hated to leave it too.



[addsig]

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[PR4552]

It is unfortunate that students loose out in the end, but as far as the school is concerned remember:



ONE MONKEY DOESN\'T STOP A SHOW.



You seem to have a lot of ideas and put them all into play, Shiloh.  Diversify yourself and make sure that you don\'t get stuck in a rut.



All will work out with PATIENCE, CALMNESS and POISE.



Good luck,



Shawn[addsig]

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[florecita]

Hello Blueboy,



I am so sorry to hear about what happened.  It is o.k. to be pesimistic sometimes, but remember, is not the same to say "the bottle is almost empty, as to say the bottle is almost full." "Where there is a will, there is a way." Do NOT give up, and don\'t let news intimidate you.  Find different ways to get to the end.  Look for jobs at other schools, honestly, I don\'t really think that the Spaniard government will do anything about schools giving jobs to illegal americans.  The situation might be heated right now, but soon they will forget all about it.  Don\'t let anyone stops you from achieving your goals.  Fight for what you want, do NOT give up. If the worse comes to worse, Shilo\'s ideas of selling souvenirs for tourists is good.  I still moving to Madrid this december.  I am pretty sure that not all schools will be afraid to hire americans.  I have a will, and I will find my way.  Hope you do too. Good luck and God bless you. [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif\"]  [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_lightbulb.gif\"]  [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_love.gif\"] [addsig]

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[PR4552]

Florecita,



I will be in Spain at the same time, just for vacation, of course.  If you want to meet for a café or something, let me know.



I am planning my move next year.  I feel that seomething is in the works and I am constantly applying for jobs.  I know that seomething will come up.



You too have a blessed day and thanks for the words of inspiration.



Shawn[addsig]

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[florecita]

Hello Shawn,



I will be in Barcelona from the 4-6 of January and then in Madrid on the 6th of January.  E-mail me at [!-- BBcode auto-mailto start --][a href=\"mailto:karla1975@aol.com\"]karla1975@aol.com[/a][!-- BBCode auto-mailto end --]  I will be with 9 other Americans, and we will for sure have a great time.  When will you be coming to Madrid? Let me know.  Have a wonderful and blessed day. [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif\"] [addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

Thanks for the words of encouragement...

I need it.

I Am going to try to find something here.

I\'ve already had a lot of great luck here, one little trip up can\'t discourage me.

I wish you good luck in Madrid...

later [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_xmasrudolph.gif\"] [addsig]

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[dasein47]

this is a great post.  full of the reported facts, the paranoidal reaction and suggestions on how to do otherwise.  i am considering spain and it\'s only a matter of time before i\'m there.  what i\'ve been thinking about lately is getting certified in barcelona at ITC - [!-- BBCode auto-link start --][a href=\"http://www.itc-training.com/\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.itc-training.com/[/a][!-- BBCode auto-link end --] - and they supposedly place you in prague/barcelona/madrid when certified.  



while barcelona and madrid may be out for the time being, i think prague is a wonderful idea and place to go and gain teaching experience.  and if i\'m not mistaken, they aren\'t part of the EU - or certainly aren\'t going to crackdown on english teacher given their need for them.  



everything i\'ve read on this site seems to say that experience is much more valuable than a cert.  so after 6 months of teaching, a return to spain would be much more beneficial (cert+6 months exp).  of course one could apply this to japan or china or elsewhere, but it seems like the ITC center takes care of all that - and puts one in beautiful prague.



does anyone have any thoughts on this?  like, is this ITC school legit or a joke.  or prague is a wasteland now the floods have wrecked much of the city.



anything is appreciated.



kip tobin[addsig]

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[PR4552]

Here is a wealth of info about any part of the world in which you want to teach.



[!-- BBCode auto-link start --][a href=\"http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/\" target=\"_blank\"]http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/[/a][!-- BBCode auto-link end --]



Enjoy.  I take a lot of the comments that people have made with a grain of salt because we are, in the end, the creator of our own destiny.



Shawn[addsig]

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[florecita]

Hello there,



I am getting my certification from the  Bristish Council.  My friends in Spain said it has a good reputation in Spain, and it is cheaper than the ITC.  The bad thing is they don\'t offer job placement. Is it for sure that the ITC offers job placement? Or are they saying that so you take the course with them? Please let me know, becuase if it is so, I will rather to take the course at ITC.  I will appreciate your reply. Best of luck in Madrid [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif\"] [addsig]

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[TelmoX]

Hey Kip, welcome to the boards! ITC is a VERY ligitimate school and there are some alumni floating around on these boards here.  There are actual threads about ITC too,  if you search ou\'ll find them.  A couple of the directors at the Barcelona school are VERY nice. The Madrid school, however, is relatively new, so I don\'t know much. But overall, they have a good rep.[addsig]

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[mlwalton]

hey Florecita,



I\'m an ITC grad, they usually have a job fair after every "graduation" and yes they really do offer life-time job assistance....I\'ll be going to them to help me find a job when I get to Barcelona...hope this helps [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif\"]



Salud,

Michelle [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif\"] [addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

If its any help a friend told me International House has the best program here in Barcelona. I can\'t say I would know though I haven\'t taken the course. I\'d reccomend taking any course though as it will really help you get a job somewhere...

As a side note, I got some work other than teaching today so at least I can stay for a little while longer...

later [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_xmasrudolph.gif\"] [addsig]

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[dkmarsh]

For the love of God, DO NOT read the Spain forum in the ESL Cafe if you want to feel good about yourself.  I\'ve never seen such a large group of disillusioned and miserable folks!  They are totally depressing and pessimistic.  Did those people expect a job to fall in their laps when they arrived in Spain?  Did they expect people to worship them because they\'re American?  I agree that we are the creator of our own destiny and if plan on moving abroad, all you need is determination, and above all, humility. [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_beer.gif\"] [addsig]

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[PR4552]

[!-- BBCode Quote Start --][TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%][TR][TD][font class=\"pn-sub\"]Quote:[/font][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][FONT class=\"pn-sub\"][BLOCKQUOTE]I take a lot of the comments that people have made with a grain of salt because we are, in the end, the creator of our own destiny.[/BLOCKQUOTE][/FONT][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][!-- BBCode Quote End --]



As I quote myself, now you know why I said the above comment.  Many people in that forum don\'t think that Spain is a wonderful place because they expected that everything to fall into place, but it\'s like my friend in Spain said:



[!-- BBCode Quote Start --][TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%][TR][TD][font class=\"pn-sub\"]Quote:[/font][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][FONT class=\"pn-sub\"][BLOCKQUOTE]Many people envy me because I live in Madrid, but hey, life goes and and there are still bills to pay.[/BLOCKQUOTE][/FONT][/TD][/TR][TR][TD][/TD][/TR][/TABLE][!-- BBCode Quote End --]



A great day to all.



Shawn[addsig]

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[florecita]

Hi there,



I love to see a lot of optimistic people here.  I, like you, believe we are the founders of our destiny.  Hang in there blueboy, you will make it. Just keep the optimism going and pray to the creator, more than anything, have faith in what you are doing. God bless you. [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif\"] [addsig]

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[bluebwoy]

will somebody just delete this forum already.......[addsig]

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[florecita]

Hello Bluebwoy,



I don\'t think is a good idea to delete this forum. It is important for people who are going to Spain to know that it would not be easy, but if they, like you are optimistic and persistent they can make it.  We have seen you going to different stages, and we are witness of your persistent and your hard work to make it there. You are just a good example to follow. Please do not delete it.  It is good to let other people know how you are making it there, how you have overpassed the difficult times.  Once again, best of luck and God bless you.  [IMG SRC=\"modules/phpBB_14/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif\"] [addsig]

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[Candela]

Reading this thread I\'ve gone from absolute and total panic envisioning myself being dragged from a classroom in handcuffs to despair at the thought of finding no work at all to determined optimism ala Shawn and Florecita!  Thanks for sharing the Brighton Blues with us BBoy, I do agree that the more knowledge we have about the teaching scene in Spain the better we are.  But thanks even more to all of you who tempered this bad news with a heady dose of self-destiny and possibility!

Candela[addsig]

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