Opinion: Teaching English In Spain Is A Joke!

[SRedw]

I am starting this thread because people really need to see what they are up against when they come to Spain, Madrid at least.  I am tired of people not putting the cards on the table, or doing it in a certain way so people will still come to Madrid.

As the title suggests, teaching English in Madrid is a joke.  There are very few academies that appreciate people with experience.  As long as you are a native speaker, dress well and get from one place to the next, then you're hired.  You can have years of experience and teach with others who just stepped off the plane and everyone will be paid the same thing.

You will encounter many students who are not serious at all and are just doing it because their job makes them do it.  They won't be able to do any outside work because they have a family or a busy schedule and I look at that as lack of time mangement skills.  They always complain that they don't have time to practice English and when I give them concrete ways of doing it in small, manageable chunks, they then make more excuses.

I am just burned out from teaching in general and although some of the burnout is talking, what I am saying is the truth.

BEFORE ANYONE GETS ON THE BOARD AND TRASHES WHAT I HAVE SAID REMEMBER THAT EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AND THAT WHAT I AM SAYING IS NOT TRUE FOR EVERY STUDENT OR EVERY ACADEMY.

How does everyone else feel?  let's start a good discussion about this without people turning bitter.
Shawn

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[lorca512]

i think you have some good points and if i were considering teaching english for the rest of my life i'd be upset but hey, you're probably here for just a couple of years so ask yourself do you really wanna spend your time doing lesson plans for your students who don't care? i definitely don't that's why i just get by. when i'm in the class i try to enjoy myself and most days it's ok. we don't have it that bad here. i got spanish friends who work real deal jobs (engineers, teachers etc.) and they're out earning me by only about one hundred euros a month. so academies suck i just had got stiffed by one called OPEN. DO NOT WORK THERE if you're a rational person. they've screwed over some friends of mine so beware.  

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[janemartin]

Very interesting thoughts here. As an experienced teacher from the states, I am used to apathy and excuses. I have had similar experiences, here and in the United States. What gets me by is finding those few students that really want to learn,  and that will go the extra mile. I know for me, learning Spanish was a drag, until I found a use for it. I didn´t try and didn´t understand the value of it. Now i am studying on my own, hours each day. I have had some poor experiences teaching here, and some really awesome ones. But I can say the same thing about my experiences in the United States. Its part of the job.  

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[tonytorero]

I like your attitude, janemartin! B) I can really relate to what you're saying. If I interpret what you're saying correctly, it seems like you've learned that all important lesson of effectively putting yourself in your students' shoes. Isn't it amazing how doing this helps you better appreciate those needles in the haystack who are able to appreciate your passion? I know, I've always fed off the energy from these students. While it isn't a magic equation to get a 100% success rate in all your classes, it does often create some positive mojo that others feed off of over time....

Thanks for your message. Bring that positive energy!  

 

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[janemartin]

Thanks Tony, I think we have very similar ideas about teaching. Yes, Sredw, I have alot of friends like you who are also burnt out, and yes lorca512, I have alot of friends like you who are teaching English just to get by and don´t see themselves in this profession for the long haul. But for people like Tony and me, who have teaching running through our blood, I think we like the challenge of teaching here. If you are a serious, passionate educator and are willing to work hard to find an academy, school, or company that will appreciate your skills, teaching in Spain can be a very rewarding and fun experience. Sredw, I understand that there are alot of companies and academies out there that are only in it for the money. I have been in the job market for a month now and can smell these places from a mile away. I actually got up in the middle of an interview last week, once I realized that the company didn´t care about the students´ or the teachers´ well-being. And if the company or academy doesn´t really care, then why should the students.
    As far as the students go, you are not responsible for their success, they are. You are a guide, a support provider, and an inspiration leader. If they want to make excuses and not try, thats their decision. Since I have been teaching for years, my mother always tells me when I get frustrated with my students, Well Jane you can lead a horse to water, but you can´t make them drink. I lead my students to the water, I show them how refreshing and useful it is. I even show them how to splash around and have fun in it. Some of them jump right in with me. Others stand on the side and only drink the smallest amount, while others die of thirst (I know, stupid analogy). I´ve done all I could. This is teaching. If you are not inspired, your students won´t be either.  

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[madridinsider]

I understand that based upon the experience that people may have had in their past before coming to Teach English in Spain and also very much depending o­n where they are from how their points of view could be quite different.

There are a lot of people that start out with a love for Spain and all things Spanish and who are willing to put up with a whole lot more than the o­nes of us who do not really care where we are as long as we can survive. This is the price they are willing to pay in order to be in Spain.

Also, if you have never taught English anywhere else before coming to Spain and have no other viable countries to compare it to, it can seem a much better than it really is.

I suppose the right thing to do is not get caught up in the fight of the things that you can not fix and to just do what is right for you depending on your situation.
If you are not in it for the long haul then I suppose you could just show up o­n time and improvise all of your lessons. I mean, if they do not care, then why should you? Just keep showing up to wherever they send you, bouncing around from place to place, while the agreements lasts and when you have done it long enough just leave.

If you are a more serious teacher, then set standards for yourself, because nobody will do that for you. You can keep doing your lesson plans and keep plugging along quitting all of the rubbish jobs as you go along until you finally one day land the better gigs. I mean the cream rises to the top, right. So if you are as good a teacher as you say you are then it is o­nly a matter of time before you get the 18 to 20 euros an hour jobs instead of being stuck in the 12 to 15 euro an hour ones.
Who knows, you might even get a good contract that meeta all of your needs.
All you have to do is focus on doing something about the things that you can control and not waste your time o­n the things that you can't (It does you no good to complain about the rain).
You can always be more prepared and be a better teacher but you can not change the way things work as far as English teaching goes here in Spain.

Remember that the sacrifice is holding out for the better jobs, while resisting the temptation to accept the more scattered / lesser jobs, knowing full well that you could really use the money.

The biggest problem I think happens when people agree to teach English against their will or do it out of desperation. I am sure that if everyone was in the position to be able to hold out for the more ideal jobs and conditions they wanted there would not be as many unhappy people teaching.  

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[SRedw]

Very good and interesting thoughts here.  

I think, in my humble opinion, even if you have teaching in your blood, burn out can happen to anyone.  I know of many teachers who have become tired of doing and teaching the same thing and have found more meaningful work.  We all go through phases where we want change.  I am looking for a change right now.  Absolute last year of teaching in general and I can't wait.  13 years has been TOO long.

This is not to sound negative, but every person is different.  I refuse to continue doing a job that no longer brings me joy.  Life is much too short for that.

Those who can hang in there and continue putting up with bullcaca, I applaud you.  I am getting out before a major depression comes.  We spend the majority of our lives working and if that work isn't fulfilling, why continue with it?  

Yes, some would say money, but if the job is affecting your health and making you depressed, that's a true sign that it's time to go.  My health and sanity are more important than any job.  Jobs come and go, but we only have ONE LIFE and I choose to move forward knowing that I am more than just a teacher and that I have other talents and skills which are applicable to other positions.


Will I miss teaching?  ABSOLUTELY NOT

Will I be happier once I stop? YES

I will continue with a few private students, but dedicating the rest of my life to teaching is not an option.

\"It doesn't matter
What anybody says.
The most is
What you
Think of yourself.\"

-India.Arie

A great day to all,

Shawn
 

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[spanishsueños]

SRedW,

I am curious as to what you are going to do next? Will you stay in Spain? What other career options are you looking into?


Curious

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[madridinsider]

Yes.  I am curious as to what other things you are considering?

There is one thing I am sure of.  
And that is that if there were any at all viable alternative jobs for native English speakers (with or without papers) to do in Spain that there would be a LOT less people teaching English.

Come on Shawn.

Say it with me.  Say it loud and say it proud.

ENGLISH TEACHING SUCKS!!!

(Especially in Spain.  If you are burned out and / or not serious about teaching to begin with...).

Now get that off your chest and start feeling better today.

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[tonytorero]

Come on Shawn.
Say it with me.
Say it loud and say it proud.

ENGLISH TEACHING SUCKS!!!

If I didn't know you both, that might get me bent out of shape. You guys are both good guys though and I know you're speaking from the heart so it's all good...You should get it off your chest!  

Just know that (And I say this more for the benefit of those who don't know you...) some of us teach, love it and are passionate about it. I do agree with Shawn though, it's not for everyone.

Be good to yourselves... B)

 

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[SRedw]

I really wouldn't say that English teaching sucks, it's no longer for me.  The way in which it is done in Spain is totally unorganized and the government doesn't care that there is very little quality in the market.  

I have found anoher job and can't wait to start.  I have turned my back on English language teaching and have left it to other people who can tolerate it.

A great day to all,

Shawn

 

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[SRedw]

Well, I am happy to say that the ENGLISH TEACHING FREE LIFE is great.  I am doing an internship with a foundation and can continue with my 4 dedicated private students.  It's the best of both worlds.  I basically wanted to double dip.  Not make teaching the rest of my life's chore, but to still stay in education.

Here's the funny part.  When I had the time for private classes, no one called, but now that I don't have the time and my schedule is full, now everyone wants classes.  It's amazing!


I will say it again, ENGLISH TEACHING IS NOT FOR EVERYONE.  I finally got out before I became too burnt out.  I am not dissing anyone who claims to have teaching in their blood.  I don't believe that I was put here on this earth to teach for the rest of my life. THANK GOD for that.

Besos y abrazos,

Shawn
 

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[Ilsen]

Hello Everyone....

Well, I am moving to Spain and actually looking forward to teaching...

So any suggestions as to where to research for possible opportunities in Alicante and Valancia?

What would you say as to the possibilities of finding solid opportunities there as an American?

Thank you in advance to those, who will respond  

Ilsen

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[SRedw]

I am posting an email that I got today from a Hillary Barrows.

SRedw,

Hillary has sent you this email from http://www.expatriatecafe.com/forums/index.php.


then why don't you go back to where you came from?

---------------------------------------------------
Please note that The Expatriate Café has no control over the
contents of this message.
---------------------------------------------------


Regards,

The The Expatriate Café team.
http://www.expatriatecafe.com/forums/index.php

Here is my response to her:

Hillary,

If this is your real name, I could take your email as trying to start an argument, but my mother taught me much better than that. I have left the teaching field and and doing something which pays me a set salary. Think next time before you send an email which can be interpreted the wrong way because it can send the wrong signals.

Have a great day,

Shawn

If you would go back and read all that I have posted, English teaching was a joke for me and is my opinion only.  I no longer work for acadamies and make more working for myself (4 private classes).  So, before many of you get on your high horse and take what I say personally and see it as an attack or a threat, remember that this is just my opinion, and is not the norm.

 I know many people who enjoy teaching English and have done it for many years.  I am burned out from teaching as I have said many time before.  If you love teaching, by all means continue it.

Have a great day and just so you know I send love to everyone on this board, including Hillary who sent me the email because maybe she had a bad day and decided to take it out on me.

Shawn
 

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[tonytorero]

I send love to everyone on this board, including Hillary who sent me the email

I'm glad you took the high-road, Shawn! B)

Personally, I'm passionate about teaching and the power I have to change lives through what I transfer to my students but I readily recognize at the same time that teaching is something that's not going to be for everyone. I'm glad we have discourse on both sides of the divide here at the Café.

Let me send out some love of my own!  :wub:

 

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[SRedw]

Thanks, Tony.  I always choose the high road.  

I am just burnt out from teaching and if anyone else wants to do it and is passionate about it, I applaud them.  I know that there is more to me than just teaching the same material every year.  I get bored with it and am looking for new challenges.

So, once again, I am not anti-teaching by any means.

Saludos,

Shawn  

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[SRedw]

Personally, I'm passionate about teaching and the power I have to change lives through what I transfer to my students

You sound like a public service announcement, Tony.  :lol:  I couldn't resist.

You also have to remember that when you first start teaching, it is like a walk in the park.  Talk to me in 10 years and we'll see if the grass is still green.  

Un saludo,

Shawn

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[casalduch]

I am sorry but I'm new to this message board and have to respond to this giving my own personal opinion. SREDW seemed, back when he wrote this post, upset at the fact that many students in Madrid don't take English seriously. I agree with him -- but perhaps it is something ingrained in some people. Let me explain:

I was born and raised in the US (east coast) but both my parents are from Spain and I have been living in Madrid for the past five years. Of course, I am fluent in Spanish and know the culture so I don't feel like a foreigner, in fact, in the US, ironically, I feel much more foreign.

That being said, I have also taught English and to be honest (and with ALL my respect to those who make it a profession) I never took it seriously either. My days usually consisted in just making a photocopy of a newspaper article (if the class was advanced) and just discussing it. Not taking it seriously made more people come to the class because it was more entertainment than learning hard core grammar (Which I also know very well but don't spend time teaching it).

So perhaps it is a mental state: some people are upset because teaching English is their profession but I honestly don't believe that the majority of "english teachers" in Madrid are here because it is a career. While there are plenty of notable exceptions, most of the English teachers I know are in Spain "for fiesta" and not to learn about our culture or history.

And, the Spanish students know it too.

Thank you.

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[Jonniboy]

I honestly think that the problem is on both sides. From my experience, it really seems to me that Spanish adults are a little lazy when it comes to learning and that they viewed English classes as an inessential luxury. That's why, in the main, the market in Spain is more kiddie orientated. I often had the situation of meeting parents who didn't speak a word of English but yet found it necessary to send little Jorge along to classes. To give an example of why I think this, numbers of privates here in Latvia are *up* despite all the economic crisis talk. People have either lost jobs and need English for job applications or are in fear of losing their jobs and have therefore decided that learning English is one of the ways to make them more competitive and irreplaceable. In Spain from what I've heard, student numbers are falling as people just don't see English as a panacaea to their problems.

The overall standard of English in Spain is poor and many of my students have commented that when they went to Spain (or Italy) for holidays their English was useless as the locals didn't speak it well enough. If there is no demand from serious, motivated students then English teachers will also be inclined to take the job a little less seriously, leading to a vicious circle. Like the chicken/egg situation the question does arise, what came first: the lazy students or the lazy teachers?

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[SRedw]

Glad to see this thread take off again.  Now that I am in the North American Language and Culture Assistnt Program I can see how the attituide of English teaching is changing in Spain in general.  The kids that I work with have a great level and aren't afraid of speaking English or making mistakes either.  As far as the business side goes, I no longer work for academies.  I am working at two universities, helping to tran bilingual teachers, giving conferences about what I do and gving private classes in both English and Spanish.

Part of the problem for me was working for academies where standards were low and money was the driving force.  Now I know that when one is in business that earning money is a priority, but when the owner takes on classes knowing that he or she doesn't have a teacher to teach the class and then hoping to find someone at the last minute, well, that's a mixture for disaster.  Now that I am out of that mess, I feel so much better.  I paid my dues, did it all with a smile, without griping, and have taken all of the experience that I gained there and have moved on to higher ground.

In the end, I see English teaching changing in Spain with the NALCA Program and when these kids finish the entire program and graduate from high school, it'll be interesting to see where they study and what jobs they'll take.

If there is no demand from serious, motivated students then English teachers will also be inclined to take the job a little less seriously, leading to a vicious circle. Like the chicken/egg situation the question does arise, what came first: the lazy students or the lazy teachers?

Jonniboy,

I agree with you 100%.  For me, teaching is a career because I taught and tutored both Spanish and French before moving to Spain.  I take my job seriously and people know that.  We will have to wait and see how this will change.

Saludos,

Shawn

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[Nina.Jedina]

Shawn it´s great to hear you are much happier than you were earlier in the year! How are the university jobs going? And I remember you mentioned something earlier about having pre-schoolers and not being too happy about that. What´s in store for next year, now that your two NALCA years are coming to an end?

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[MadridTeacher]

Sorry guys! I can't believe you.

Nobody in their right mind can hate ALL of English teaching because there's obviously a positive side to it, or why did you get into it in the first place? The problem you actually have is that what you really hate is getting paid peanuts and good-for-nothing students, but you confuse that with hating all of teaching. I think that if you went out and found the right jobs with the right students, you'd love it. What's not to love about that?!

MadridTeacher

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[RebeccaG]

Olé, MadridTeacher!!

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[SRedw]

The problem you actually have is that what you really hate is getting paid peanuts and good-for-nothing students,

Well, I am not getting paid peanuts.  I get paid 40€ an hour at one university, 30€ at another, just got through teaching two speacial courses, one at 80€ an hour and another at 120€ an hour.  I am doing pretty well for myself, hehe.

If you go back and read my post carefully, I was not happy teaching at academies.  Someone reading this thread will know that I enjoyed teaching at her academy because she offered quality.  Now that I am in the NALCA program, things have changed for me a lot.  I enjoy being in a more stable environment and have just receive my school for the third year, in the center of Madrid.  Things are looking up for me and I can finally leave academy work behind.  I even have my summer taken care of.

Cheers,

Shawn

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[MadridTeacher]

Touché

By the way, I'm not sure where to post this interesting article on CNN.com
 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/03/20/teaching.abroad "Young Americans going abroad to teach"

". . . many recent college graduates are searching for alternatives to jumping into the job market in the face of the recession. An increasing number of young Americans are searching out paid positions teaching English in countries like South Korea, Japan, China and Spain as a means to expand their horizons and weather the economic doldrums."

By the way, I'll check this thread out more carefully and your info. I myself have been getting between 30 and 38 euros an hour English teaching so it can't be as bad as you make it out, at least for people who actually workl.

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[SRedw]

By the way, I'll check this thread out more carefully and your info. I myself have been getting between 30 and 38 euros an hour English teaching so it can't be as bad as you make it out, at least for people who actually workl.

This is where you are mistakened.  I am not making it seem bad at all.  I was talking about my experiences when I worked for academies and the strudents that I worked with, which were a joke.  Now, this thread is old and dated, back at a time when I was going through a troublesome time in my life.

Now, if you are in love with English teaching MadridTeacher, good for you.  I am getting away from English teaching, as far as academies are concerned and getting more into teacher training and working with students in both public and charter schools.  This turn of events has made all the world of difference in my life.  No more running around from class to class for me.  Those days are gone.  YESSS!!!!

Shawn

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[MadridTeacher]

Hi Shawn,

Ok. I've re-read this thread a little more rigorously.  :'( Sorry! I started off on the wrong foot. I apologize if I'm sounding off a bit aggressively, or at least it sounded that way even to me upon re-reading my own post. I understand that you started this thread some time ago during difficult times personally speaking and things have changed drastically for the better for you.

What I meant to say, take a deep breath, is that English teaching's not so bad given the right conditions, and I DO understand, believe me, that those conditions are hard to find and maintain for any worthwhile length of time. These difficulties definitely make the job a lot less attractive, to say the least, but not totally unattractive altogether.

One typical problem is that it's easy to burn out, I do so every year. Because of the seasonal nature of the work, you work much harder some of the time and not at all at other times. The problem I have personally is that I sometimes burn out and have to cut back on classes for a while.

It's usually the wishy-washy sh@theads that push me over the edge. There is a high frequency of lazy, wishy-washy, uncooperative students who will just drive you (and the good students in the groups) up the wall with poor motivation, horrendous attendance and awful punctuality. You'll often have different students wanting completely different approaches (eg. conversation, grammar, business, games or songs, etc. -  in companies) On top of it, after months of this, some will be falling further and further behind (eg. missing the presentation phase of ppp lessons one time after another) and they might just finally give the HR people a call and complain. It really is quite difficult to always keep everyone happy despite what other teachers here have said about simply keeping them entertained with photocopies of articles and whatnot. Nothing works perfectly for everyone forever. You'll always get one or two "deviants" who actually want to learn.

Another writer here said something about the teachers being lazy (the chicken or the egg). There's no doubt about it for me: student's get exactly what they deserve. I've seen it time after time. In general, they pay us good money to teach them and then they don't let us. Nowadays, they don't actually even need us except for the writing and speaking, so why aren't they learning any faster?
 
Another problem is that we all have to make a living and low-end jobs for starters usually don't pay well enough for us to make ends meet. I do want to be perfectly clear. I believe anything under 25 euros an hour to be peanuts." Actually, I think that I am personally making peanuts at 35-38 euros an hour. Though most people in Madrid seem to make even less than I do, the fact is that I have had plenty of students who make real money so I can't take myself or my teaching profession too seriously at this point salary-wise-speaking. I'd just love to be able to afford some of the luxuries they regularly enjoy like month-long vacations in both Ibiza (motorboating) and Disneyworld. I might choose to do something different myself, but having that kind of money would sure come in handy.

So, given all of the sort of thing that I've outlined above, I do burn out with "playing the game" from time-to-time but I always just pick myself up and get on with it. I know that your job must seem awfully different to you, but it sounds awfully like more of the same to me. I was born into this. My father was a high school teacher and I grew up with it, bullsh@t and all. I had seen lots of stuff before I even became an English teacher, such as seeing a j@ckass, alcoholic principal fire 7 or 8 honest, decent, hard-working high-school teachers for no good reason except that he was a b@stard with a serious personality problem (he had done this before at other schools previously it turned out). There were other situations, my own high-school English teacher (for native speakers) commited suicide some ten years ago. Every student I ever knew in high school would give him a hard time like you wouldn't believe and I guess it just eventually got to him. So, I guess that because of these types of experiences I just have never taken to the idea that working for a "serious institution" would rescue me from my otherwise difficult "freelance" circumstances. Unfortunately, I have seen too many serious institutions seriously f@cked up.

By the way, somebody's likely to take a dive out the 8th floor window after the load of cr@p that I just let loose with. My apologies to you all and your families. Anyway, speaking of families, I have one to take care of, which is why I put up with the dark side of this business. There's definitely a before and after to having kids for those of you who don't have them yet, at least for me.

Oh, and also by the way, I do have a second job besides teaching. I've been working on my website 20 or 30 hours a week for years. I started it because of the seasonal nature of English teaching. The idea was that I would work on it more in the off season, which is what I currently still do. Little-by-little I have had to cut back on my teaching to keep pace with the requirements of the site. I would recommend that everyone who's in teaching do something similar and moonlight. There are writers, webmasters, artists, photographers, musicians and god-knows-what-else working in this business because it gives you lots of flexibility to make up your own schedule.

I'll cut this post off before I get too far into all the positive points of this job, and there are a bunch, believe me.

Cheers,

MadridTeacher

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[SRedw]

MadridTeacher,

Great post and I can really understand what you have written.  As far as I am concerned, working in a bilingual public school, at two universities and training teachers in the bilingual program has really changed my work situation.  I am no longer dealing with shady academies that pay "peanuts" and these places are both honest and fair with their teachers.  I have no complaints at all and have turned my back on academies (except for one) and have moved on to greener pastures where the pay is more and the hours are less and where I can really see a difference in what I do.

In the end, we all have to find the path that makes us happy in life, stcik with it and make sure that all of out needs are met.  I am happy with my path and wouldn't change it for the world right now.

Shawn

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[kumargowda1983]

I was born and raised in the US (east coast) but both my parents are from Spain and I have been living in Madrid for the past five years. Of course, I am fluent in Spanish and know the culture so I don't feel like a foreigner, in fact, in the US, ironically, I feel much more foreign.

That being said, I have also taught English and to be honest (and with ALL my respect to those who make it a profession) I never took it seriously either. My days usually consisted in just making a photocopy of a newspaper article (if the class was advanced) and just discussing it. Not taking it seriously made more people come to the class because it was more entertainment than learning hard core grammar (Which I also know very well but don't spend time teaching it).

So perhaps it is a mental state: some people are upset because teaching English is their profession but I honestly don't believe that the majority of "english teachers" in Madrid are here because it is a career. While there are plenty of notable exceptions, most of the English teachers I know are in Spain "for fiesta" and not to learn about our culture or history.

And, the Spanish students know it too.

Thank you.

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