Author Topic: Teaching Rates  (Read 12944 times)

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Offline RebeccaG

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Teaching Rates
« on: July 25, 2005, 08:09:32 PM »
Hi everyone --

I see that more and more people are coming from (or going to) other parts of Spain besides Madrid. That's great!

I thought, as strictly an informational exercise, it would be helpful for those coming into the teaching scene to know what they can expect to make as English teachers. So, for those of you who wouldn't mind sharing, why not post what  is generally earned and which city you are living in. It would also be helpful to know what kind of contract (if any) you have. For example:

Teaching in Madrid, Capital (and immediate surroundings):

Generally speaking:

Laboral contract (legally working with social security & taxes paid by academy/employer):
in academy: 10-12€ per hour
in-company: 12€ per hour.

Autónomo (legally registered freelance/self employed where you are paying your own social security & taxes, and you invoice the client)
Through an agency: 18-20€ per hour
Direct contract: 25-35€ per hour (in company)
private students: 18-20€ per hour

Under the table (a.k.a. working illegally*, no social security payments and not paying taxes):
in-academy/agency: 12-15€ per hour
on your own: 10-20€ per hour

*working illegally includes those workers without working permits (typically Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc) and those with an EU passport but are not registered \"autónomo\" and are paid as \"freelance workers\". Something which is quite common in some teaching institutions. If you are a holder of an EU passport, are being compensated in this manner and plan on staying in Spain long term (longer than 2 years) it is in your best interest to register as autónomo and avoid any unpleasant surprises in the future. (i.e. being held responsible for any unpaid back taxes and social security).

So.... that's the scoop on Madrid. If there are others out there in Madrid and have different information, please share.

Anyone else want to share their area's teaching rates?

PD. The posting of this information does not mean that the administrators of the Expatriate Café condone illegal employment or advocate working illegally. It is strictly informational.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2005, 10:23:47 AM by RebeccaG »
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Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 10:41:57 AM »
Quote
Under the table (a.k.a. working illegally*, no social security payments and not paying taxes):
in-academy/agency: 12-15€ per hour
on your own: 10-20€ per hour

Rebecca,

My rates for private students are anywhere from 20 - 30€ per hour.This is because I have 4 and 1/2 years of English teaching experience and I am also teaching in the bilingual progam.  It all depends on how you market yourself.

Let's hear what others have to say.

Shawn

Offline andyi

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2008, 09:47:20 PM »
I agree with SRedw, real rates are higher, so long as you are professional and know how to market your services, give good client service (as well as good classes!) etc.  Furthermore, rates have been increasing (due to high demand and lack of good teachers.)  Below is the summary from an article I wrote recently which describes working as a "Business English" teacher, and the earnings potential.  The full article is quite long (too long to post here) and has been published on several expat and EFL sites.  You can find it at www.axlan.com - the full url (currently, it might change) is http://www.axlan.com/node/586 - message me if you'd like to post a copy on here.

-----------------------

In summary

Freelancing as a business English teacher/trainer can allow a comfortable quality of life with relatively large amounts of holiday and other free time.  A typical annual income is probably in the region of 23,000 euros before deductions.  Whether or not you regard this is a "good" or even "acceptable" income obviously depends on your expectations, needs and objectives, but it compares reasonably well with other options.

If due to your specialist experience or skilled negotiation with your clients you are able obtain above average rates, or simply work much longer hours, an income of 30,000 is feasible, and a realistic upper limit is probably around 35,000.

In general, the market is buoyant and expanding.  Average rates are increasing significantly faster than general inflation and so the 23,000-35,000 range given above might well be something like 30,000-45,000 in a few years time, which would make the profession very attractive, and fully comparable with almost any other which required a similar calibre of individual.

Probably the biggest threat to this profession is the ongoing supply of "low quality" personnel via many organisations, which results both directly and indirectly in customer dissatisfaction, reduced perceived value and a generally poorer image for the profession.  However, the marketplace is gradually evolving and those lower quality providers are likely to be forced to either shape up or ship out, to the benefit of both the language professionals and the client base.

Offline andyi

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2008, 11:55:37 PM »
Only just noticed that the date on the original posting was July 25, 2005, so that information is three years out of date.

So in July 2005:
Autónomo
Through an agency: 18-20€ per hour
Direct contract: 25-35€ per hour (in company)
private students: 18-20€ per hour

In 2008: (IMO/IME)
Autónomo
Through an agency: 24-27€ per hour
Direct contract: 35-50€ per hour (in company)
private students: 20-30€ per hour

This is pretty consistent with my analysis that rates have been increasing for at least the past couple of years at around 15-20% per year, and are still increasing.  Like the property prices, it can't go on for ever, but I don't think it's peaked yet.  Nobody I know in the "profession" is short of work (except between 10:30-13:30 of course.)


Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2008, 02:43:27 AM »
Quote
Probably the biggest threat to this profession is the ongoing supply of "low quality" personnel via many organisations, which results both directly and indirectly in customer dissatisfaction, reduced perceived value and a generally poorer image for the profession.  However, the marketplace is gradually evolving and those lower quality providers are likely to be forced to either shape up or ship out, to the benefit of both the language professionals and the client base.

Andy,

This is so true, but there will always be backpackers, but I can say that even I am noticing, after reading certain job boards, that academies are demanding people with TEFL or many years of experience.  Maybe a lot of this is pure marketing so that their clients can believe that they have qualified teachers, but at the end of the day, I think that sooner or later, backpackers days are numbered in Spain, well Madrid at least.   ;D

Thanks for posting rates.

Suerte,

Shawn

Offline pietti

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2008, 09:46:28 PM »
What about the prices now, since Spain is in a economic crisis?

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2008, 10:08:24 PM »
Rates are still the same.  The economic crisis hasn't hit the English teaching field just yet.  We will have to wait and see what happens when it does.

Shawn

Offline El Manco

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 12:52:06 AM »
Hello all,

I think it's been... i don't know, but it's been years. Wow. The café has changed but I still see the same names around.

Well, last time I posted something here I had just arrived. Then I did my masters in Spanish, was an auxiliar, reverted (or advanced, since I was an auxiliar first. i do things backwards.) to teaching full-time.... and now it's three years later, I'm still here, and holy cow I'm back at the ExpatCafé. It's nostalgic and nice.

And I came back wondering if there was a thread about teaching rates, and there is! Except I see that it's just for Madrid, at the moment. The thing is after 3 years Madrid is starting to get to me (actually, it has been getting to me) and this summer over my deliciously long teacher's vacation I decided Oviedo would be the place for me to move. However, I've never heard Oviedo mentioned on this forum, nor do I know much else about English teaching there. I saw two ads for two different academies and that's it. I'm sure there's less pay and work, but if you've been to Asturias, well, ye Asturies. Hell if it comes down to milking cows I might switch to that...

If anyone knows anything, that's be great, and if not, it's been great reading all of your posts again!

I'm going to bed!

PS-
me and the few illegal americans I know who still teach english do:

20-30 privates
18-22 in-company, through an agency

i also had one private/through an agency class last year that paid 16. this year i decided to take back three hours of my life weekly.

garbanzos

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 11:41:14 PM »
El Manco,

Great to see you back on the board.  Yes, I also taught Spanish in the US and realized that it wasn't for me, high school teaching at least, but loved teachig on the community college level.  Needed to get back to living the language and being surrounded by it 24/7.

To answer your question, take a look at MadridTeacher and TEFL.  Both end in .com and they have ads for all of Spain.  For MadridTeacher you have to choose EMPLOYMENT IN SPAIN, and TEFL has a drop down menu where you can choose Spain and there are ads for all over Spain.

Good luck with your search and please lte us know what you find.

Suerte,

Shawn

Offline AnnaMad1

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 09:26:07 PM »
He with the amigos estadounidenses americanos:

Hello! My first time posting....I'm planning a move to madrid in November (taking ****'s quickie tefl course and then hoping to find jan 2009 employment) AND am american. (will likely be illegal after feb 17) It's kind of a shot in the dark, as I know very little about what I'm getting into. I've taken 6 courses in TEFL at a community college here in the states, and am excited (and scared!)

Would like to talk to you since it seems you have other american illegal friends.....to find out what it's like. I've been to madrid once for two months, and really liked it.

Is there any hope for me?

:-) hope to hear from you
-Ana

Offline Buttercup

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2008, 04:55:21 AM »
I need some advice on what I can expect with teaching English in Barcelona. I'm a dual Canadian/UK citizen (also an EU National), so paperwork isn't a problem. I also have a 4 year English degree, a TOFL certificate, and am quite experienced in the working world (I'm 43 and a professional writer).

This is my question:

Can I expect to earn 20Euro/hour for my skills/education in Barcelona? Can I expect at least 30 hours from a corporate client if I'm hired on? Also, how easy is it to pick up private clients, and, should I start looking for work before I arrive, or, just show up and expect to find work quickly?

Cheers

Suzie :)

n.b. Please only 'positive' responses.

Offline MadridTeacher

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2008, 04:03:56 PM »
I basically agree with andyi on his average teaching rates for 2008

   So in July 2005:
   Autónomo
   Through an agency: 18-20€ per hour
   Direct contract: 25-35€ per hour (in company)
   private students: 18-20€ per hour
  
   In 2008: (IMO/IME)
   Autónomo
   Through an agency: 24-27€ per hour
   Direct contract: 35-50€ per hour (in company)
   private students: 20-30€ per hour

I've had some news from academies about cutbacks and absolutely everyone I meet out here on the street is pessimistic about the immediate future (including most of my students, a couple are hit a lot harder than others) so I predict a bit of a drop in rates in 2009. I lost one out of 4 classes in October in a company which hasn't paid me for October-December's classes yet, but otherwise everything's still looking solid. That means my own rates ought to hold till the summer anyway. By the way, all but one of my clients (a very old private student/friend) is through direct contracts at between 30 and 38 euros an hour (the average is about 35 euros for 27 hours of class a week).

That would seem to add up to about 3,800 euros per month, but I do have problems with a few clients whose inconsistency I perhaps tolerate more than I should, not to mention rare "unpaid" sick days, etc. (but I work so much, I tend to see their missed classes as a much needed rest, rather than lost income) The real number is probably closer to 33-34,000 per year, but I have to pay around 5,000-6,000 euros a year for a car which I wouldn't otherwise have to get to these clients and about 2,500 a year for social security, and loads for books, computer, projector, marketing, etc. which puts the total down a little bit further.

I don't see how anybody can make much money in this profession unless they work their a%#es off and re-invest in themselves and their repertoire, and stay focussed! We don't get paid holidays as a well-paid fully-independent "autónomo", so if you have a family with children to take care of like I do, and you're staring down the barrel of a full-blown perfect-financial-crisis-storm, you might just skip the expensive holidays in Tenerife, just in case any of your clients decide to skip out on you. Oh, by the way, I did have a client disappear and "possibly" (haven't paid me yet) skip out on paying me recently. They didn't owe me but a few hundred euros so no problem, but you can imagine if you had all your eggs in one basket like some of you do.

Those are the kinds of reasons why teachers tend not to stick around in this business, in Madrid anyway. Last year, for instance, I got an SMS the first day of December a few hours before class from a company which cancelled all of my 9-10 hours of class until mid-January. We tend to get %$#@ed around and that's the real reason why there is a real and constant need for an "ongoing supply of low quality personnel" around here, most of you usually move on to greener pastures making room for younger "English teachers" to come in. Also, a lot of clients are just as concerned with "cheap" as with "quality." Also, sure, a lot of clients want you to be a professional, but in the end a lot of them just are perpetually lazy and want you to pack your books, methods and techniques away and simply chat. I'll bet a lot of native speakers without any teacher training whatsoever could give me a run for my money in that area. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why academies and agencies can consistently place inexperienced teachers and get away with it.

MadridTeacher
http://www.madridteacher.com

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 12:52:14 PM »
MadridTeacher,

You have said nothing but the truth.  I can feel you on all aspects of your post.  However, about the money situation, it does depend on what you have as far as responsabilities.  I am single, have no interest in getting married or ever having children and have no interest in owning a home or a car, so it goes to say that the money that I earn as an English teacher goes a long way for me.  I do have to start paying back student loans, so a chunck of my pay goes towards that.

What will 2009 bring to the English teaching world? Well, I can say that there aren't as many backpackers as there used to be because of the Euro - Dollar exchange.  Many simply cannot afford to come over here and as you have stated a lot og the QUALIFIED English teachers have moved on to greener pastures.  I am now working in a bilingual public school and two universities.  No more academy work for me, unless it is to help out a friend, and she knows who she is.

Then we also have to look at TEFL programs that make people think that just after one month that they are qualified to teach and manange their own classroom without any problems.   I have been told many times that I need to get a TEFL to be looked at seriously and this is after have more than 14 years of teaching, tutoring and admnistrative experience in education combined.  I just looked at the person and laughed.

Let's see also if companies will cut back on English language teaching and training due to the crisis.

Cheers,

Shawn

Offline MadridTeacher

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 06:00:11 PM »
Hello Shawn,

Well, I don't know you and your circumstances (how old you are, your politics, etc), but sh#t happens in life and people change as they get older ;) so you may get a few surprises yet like marriage  :o and children  ::) and a mortgauge   :'(  and so on. Worse things happen at sea, you know.

Also, if there's anything history teaches us is that things rarely stay the same. Just meditate on what's happened just in the last 50 years. The current economic crisis is still coming to a boil so we'll have to wait and see what happens regarding jobs and teaching rates. I know a teacher who's lost all of his work in a university. Also, I have had classes in a university for several years now as well, but they have not been any more stable than anything else I've had till now. I've gotten the same sort of fruitless carrot dangling from them as from other bottom feeding academies (i.e. offers that have required an investment of time and money on my part that just never pan out), which has turned me off about future collaboration.

I agree with backpackers being put off by the high-cost and low-standard of living (i.e. expensive and really shabby apartments) here. I can't be sure, but I imagine there's a hard-core rental-price re-adjustment coming down the pipe, what with 100s of thousands or even millions of properties floating around empty. The only thing that could stop this readjustment is local politics and bureacracy, protective of the big construction companies as always.

Regarding your lack of a TEFL certificate, of course 14 years of experience trumps a silly ol' piece of paper any time. I wonder if the people who have recommended that you get a TEFL certificate were young and relatively inexperienced (professionally and personally)? What gets to me is the agencies and academies which employ young and inexperienced teachers as DOSes who then spout out such nonsense at every turn. It would be like working on the same team as Harry, Moe and Curly. You know that they're going to fumble something or cause another crisis at any moment! Either put me on a team that's smart and/or knows what they're doing or I'd rather work alone.

In any case, to get back to what I was saying before I digressed, and I'm probably repeating myself, now there’s an economic crisis here, which, if they haven’t actually killed the d@mned goose, I hope it won’t last long, but it’s obviously spreading into the real economy, and everybody we (my wife and I) know has been touched by it and have lost jobs or a sizeable amount of business or know somebody who has lost jobs and business, or are having trouble collecting some payments (me, for example), and so on. There’s a spreading dark mood of disillusionment and despair everywhere. My father-in-law, the ex-administrator of newspapers and magazines, for instance, thinks April and May will bring a crash, if not a far deeper slump. My right-wing barber thinks people are fed up with everything and are going to hit the streets soon to protest violently in mass – when they protest here, they turn out by the millions and you can feel the Earth shake. Everybody's got a story and the television is just scaring people sh@tless with all sorts of "real life" stories of ruin and survival on top of it. I think partly these people are overreacting and being a bit hysterical. But, for years and years, I thought the same thing about a population which makes an average of about 1,000 to 1,300 euros a month going absolutely out of their minds by paying upwards of 300,000 euros for tiny apartments. And, now they're doing the same sort of thing but in the other direction - they're pushing prices down. Go figure!

So, what I want to say is that we're caught up in a historic moment and anything can happen for bad or for good, so I think you just have to try and stay on your toes and feet as well as you can.

MadridTeacher
http://www.madridteacher.com

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2009, 08:40:43 PM »
Steve,

Thanks for the response.  I really enjoyed reading it.

Quote
Well, I don't know you and your circumstances (how old you are, your politics, etc), but sh#t happens in life and people change as they get older Wink so you may get a few surprises yet like marriage  Shocked and children  Roll Eyes and a mortgauge   Cry  and so on. Worse things happen at sea, you know.

As a gay man, children and marriage aren't in my future, so I can tell you now what isn't going to happen in my life.  I will only buy if I have more than 50% of what the place costs.  I am 37 and am loving life and know that there are many special things out there for me.  I love working with kids, but am only intersted in taking care of myself.  I like it that way.  As I get older, I see things with more clarity and realize what's important to me in life and what simply isn't.

Well, maybe you were at the wrong university my friend, but where I am is collaborating with the bilingual program and is training teachers, which is on-going and the funds will be there, even if they have to cut back.  There is a waiting list for teachers to do their one day workshop and the program is highly successful because it is fun and the teachers walk away knowing that they can speak and teach in English.  It boosts their confidence and gives them the tools they need to help teach in English.

In life, we should all strive for better jobs and better things in life and not become stagnant and continue doing things in the same old way that we have done them.  Every single job that I have done has gotten progressively better and higher in pay.  I refuse to let present situations around me define who I am or even limit me in my thinking.  I am much more than how much money I make and much more than the job that I do.  The sky is the limit for me and even that's just the beginning.

We both agree on the TEFL, so there's no need to comment on that.

What you have said about the current economic situation is a very surprising one, which I have read in the paper.  I am turning work down because I simply do not have the time, and should I lose a job, I will stay calm, because it's just me and I know that something else will turn up before I know it.  How am I able to stay positive? Because I know that some of this crisis in the mind and people are scared to spend because they don't know what will hapen.  Now is not the time to hoard money because many of the mom and pop shops are going out of business.

As far as buying goes, it doesn't interest me at all.  I handle my money the way that's best for me and refuse to follow the crowd.  Many people have gotten themselves in debt trying to do what others tell them to and they are now regretting it.  It's not nice knowing you may be put out of your place because you simply cannot pay the mortgage.  I go to sleep peacefully at night knowing that I have more then enough rent saved in the bank should something happen.

Back to the question at hand.

I do see many more advertisements for English teachers, so there must be a demand, but how long this demand will last is beyond me.

"I think for sure
That what it is
Will be whatever
It will be."

Cheers,

Shawn



Offline MadridTeacher

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 11:44:49 AM »
Can't argue with your resoluteness and I do coincide with most of what you say albeit with minor subtle semantic or grammatical differences (i.e. I myself don't "refuse" "to let present situations" or people define me, I simply "don't" whenever I am able to - the word "refuse" arouses feelings of a determined struggle in me, but I still do get rattled by the occasional crazy person you come across in life: the crank, heckler, troll, hacker, criminal, un-cooperative civil servant, etc.), but in the end I feel the same way as you about that and self-improvement. I also concur that every single job I've gotten has been paid better than the last one. I do, however, have a more cynical (believing or showing the belief that people are motivated chiefly by base or selfish concerns - by the way, I do believe there are plenty of very good people around - i.e. a bell curve) or even skeptically negative view about the ability of humanity to deal with certain incredibly complex problems like the economy, over-population, wars (there are several going on around the world as I write), energy, pandemias and global warming. (La alegría de la fiesta  :o ) In other words, I don't believe our leaders are necessarily very well equipped to deal with these (recent events bear this out). What I'm saying basically is that we both live in a world which is far larger and more ruthlessly complex than either of us and which does define us whether we like it or not, and we are stronger the more we are aware of that because these definitions will often limit us whether we let them or not - realistically speaking, this means that the sky is not the limit for me (i.e. the ares, shoulds, can'ts, have tos and haves - you are this, you should do this, you can't do this, you have to do that, and most importantly you have this much money - real economic limitations are "la leche" - basically, this means that because you need money you have to appear to be something particular to work in any company, 99.9% of which are not democratic in nature and which would object strongly to even slight deviations such as leaving your hair too long or wearing a tie-dye t-shirt and flip-flops to work) Adaptability is a necessary survival trait in a rapidly changing world and it depends on this knowledge. Too much change is stressful, however, and we all like to feel as comfortable as possible in our own skins. In other words, I don't mind that others define me to be one thing or another (couldn't stop them if I wanted to) and I would just as soon go along with them most of the time. Being different takes time and effort, in other words, and I'd just as soon reserve that for my creativity: class prepping, writing, website, etc. My main idea has something to do with niche theory I suppose.

Regarding the economy, I think demand was red-hot last year so even a drop of 15% or a bit more might go largely unnoticed this year. Again, I think we have to wait a few months yet to see what this is all going to lead to. I'm not an economist, but there are plenty out there who are quite aghast at the ominous panorama. Can't say I'm too impressed with the "science" of Economics anyway given how few economists predicted the meltdown, so my guess is as good as theirs. So, here's my "coin-toss" guess, I think it's going to get a little worse this spring and perhaps in the fall before it gets better again. However, teachers are still going to find work out there, just not as much of it as last year. Also, I do seem to have to distinguish between quality well-paid work and other stuff whenever I write as I'm not at all interested in the latter. It reminds me of so-called "TEFL courses" that guarantee teaching work, while the only wothwhile guarantee in my book would have to stipulate "well-paid."

We may be on a different wavelength regarding the economy, but I'm not making this depressing stuff up; Here's an interesting report on the Economist.com ( http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12932336 ). It's titled "World Economy - Accelerating downhill." Have a look around at the business and financial sections in the past two or three months of issues unless you don't want to get seriously depressed. I'm not a masochist, but I do have to swallow this sh#t for my business English students, who, like most academy owners, are on a different "business-oriented" wavelength than teachers - and they're probably paying more attention to the business and economy pages than we are. The Economist asked one famously vociferous economist to predict what he thought would happen with the economy and he said, "I don't know". There's nothing like an economic meltdown to instill a little humility - and fear - all around.

Ok. So I had a look around the internet for reports about the economy in Spain. Basically, although the banks in Spain are strong, there has been a "financial crisis" plus a mega-crash in Real Estate sector. Apparently, the automotive sector has been hit especially hard as well, but generally speaking all sectors are falling.

Wikipedia.com: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Spain#Current_events:_a_downward_scenario" target="_blank">Economy of Spain - Current Events - A downward scenario[/url].
             
FistFulofEuros.net: <a href="http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/economics-and-demography/everything-but-the-sky-falls-in-on-spain/" target="_blank">Everything but the sky falls in on Spain[/url] - interesting blog entry.

Economist.com: <a href="http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12867320" target="_blank">Spain's unemployment - Longer dole queues[/url]  -  The social consequences of fast-rising job losses.

Europapress.es: <a href="http://www.europapress.es/economia/noticia-paro-rompe-barrera-tres-millones-sumar-casi-millon-nuevos-desempleados-2008-20090108090231.html" target="_blank">Paro rompe barrera 3,000,000[/url]  -  3,128,963 unemployed in Spain by December of 2008. Including <a href="http://www.inmodiario.com/11/2457/el-ajuste-construccion-se-ha-cobrado-medio-millon-empleos-2008.html" target="_blank">500,000[/url] in construction.
             
ElPais.com: <a href="http://www.elpais.com/articulo/economia/Bruselas/augura/Espana/tasa/paro/2010/elpepieco/20090120elpepieco_2/Tes" target="_blank">Bruselas augura para España una tasa de paro del 19% en 2010 [/url] - Brussels predicts an unemployment rate of 19% for Spain in 2010. The Spanish government predicts 15,9% in 2009 and 15,7% in 2010. In my opinion, the Spanish government tends to err in its own favor in its predictions. Brussels expects the "crisis" to last a bit longer in Spain due to the constructions sector's problems.
             
France24.com: FAES preve supere 4,000,000 parados en 2009 - Predictions are that unemployment will rise to 4,000,000. The government predicts 600,000 more unemployed.

France24.com: Standard &; Poor Downgrades Spain's Debt Rating - Spain is facing its deepest recession in decades.

Here's something more sobering from the Economist.com:  Spain's new unemployed
- And worse to come


Lastly, this new article by Janice Haywood, Director of Windsor Idiomas in Madrid: A Turnaround in the Madrid Market.

By the way, I can't say I'm a peaceful sleeper myself. I'm an anxious worrier type and most of my "eureka" moments come to me either in my sleep, in the metro or in the shower. Not that that's important, but I just thought I'd mention it since we're waxing philosophical.

MadridTeacher
http://www.madridteacher.com
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 11:31:11 AM by MadridTeacher »

Offline rob in madrid

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 10:26:17 PM »
Damm, hit compatibility mode and lost my whole post!!! I hate IE8 and Visita (actually don't mind Visita it's just very flakey)

Long post short, you can expect to earn between 800 and 1100 euros a month nine months of the year. And almost nothing during the summer. As many others have noted Madrid is a bloody expensive city to live in.

Offline lizziee

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 04:34:48 PM »
I´m with Rob. Don´t be fooled by "I'm earning 35 an hour" stories. The average is a lot less. Think more 20-22.

x

Offline MadridTeacher

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2009, 10:42:00 AM »
Hi Lizzie, You may be a DOS (I've been one too), but you're obviously inexperienced at higher pay-levels. I AM earning 35 euros an hour, really! And I know a few other teachers making as much and some making up to 50 euros an hour, though I'm not so sure whether or not all of their classes are at this rate. In one guy's case, it's just 6 or 9, I'm not sure which. It's no lie because I've substituted for him. Though I agree with you that the average is far lower (maybe under 19 per hour) and it may be going down fast instead of up along with the rest of the economy. You CAN hope for better pay, but it's not like we're untouchables like Elliot Ness. It's that supply and demand thing, it's totally flip-flopped and there may be just a few of us who are still living in the past, until the wave catches up with us that is. These stories ought to scare your socks off: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106231980&sc=nl&cc=nh-20090703 and http://www.euroweeklynews.com/2009061156230/news/costa-blanca/homeless-and-jobless-–-the-price-to-pay-for-helping-a-friend.html. Understandably, most people keep a very low profile about the chollos (lucky strikes!) and so they obviously didn't tell you about them (why would they if you're a competitor?), but they're out there nonetheless.
Here's hoping the whole house of cards stays up for all of our sakes!
Cheers,
Steve

Offline MadridTeacher

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2009, 10:43:51 AM »
Now, wait a minute, what is this? I'm a DOS too? Oops! I see I must have misread some sort of rating system based on the number of posts we make or something. Sorry 'bout that!

Offline lizziee

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 04:35:03 PM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were lying. I just didn't want newcomers thinking they could earn thousands a year. The reality for a lot of English teachers, esp. those starting in the business, is much less and it's best to come to Madrid (which is a very expensive city) with a realistic idea.

Love your site!

x

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2009, 02:19:30 AM »
Let's look at my situation last year. Here's a breakdown of what I made:

NALCAP - 888,25€ (per month)

CESIF - 30€ per hour

URJC - 40€ an hour

Teacher training - 128€ every Saturday

I did quite well for myself, but I paid my dues by working for academies in the past.  My rent was only 325€ a mont, which didn't include utilities, but I did save a lot of money.  I will be making more this year because I have stopped working for academies and have moved to universities and the Ministry of Education and Science.

There's money to be made in English teaching, but it requires people moving their culitos to get and do the work.

Shawn

Offline lizziee

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 02:24:53 PM »
And how much experience have you got, Sean? It's not fair to wave huge amounts of money in front of young, just qualified teachers. They need to know the truth about the business - when you're just starting out, you're gonna have to work your b*ll*cks off to get a decent wage, and by that I mean liveable (is that how you spell it  ::)?. It will improve, but you're going to have to work hard.

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 05:55:48 PM »
Quote
And how much experience have you got, Sean?

That's SHAWN!  ;)

You are quite right that people need to say how much experience they have.  I have been teaching, tutoring and holding administrative positions in education for 16 years now.  

This post has been honest abut teaching rates in Spain and when you say,

Quote
It's not fair to wave huge amounts of money in front of young, just qualified teachers.

what do you mean by this exactly?  Please explain yourself.  

Let's face it.  Just because one has a TEFL does not make that person qualified to teach English.  An MA beats out a TEFL any day, but that's another thread for another day.  A TEFL will help you get your feet wet and immerse you into the English teaching field and help to get you started.  So, it does serve a purpose to a certain extent.

There are many teachers who just start out and refuse to except less than 20€ an hour.  At the end of the day, we create our own reality and say YES or NO to what's being offered to us.  When I started teaching English in 2003, I was paid 15€ and hour, but had years of experience before.  I then saw that academies weren't for me and moved into other areas that paid more.  

Quote
They need to know the truth about the business - when you're just starting out, you're gonna have to work your b*ll*cks off to get a decent wage,

We are also telling the truth about the business.  Notice how I put MY NUMBERS out there for last year.  This in no way means that a new teacher will make this amount.

Shawn

Offline lizziee

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 02:42:07 PM »
Oooooh, so angry when we're basically saying the same thing - shouting at me  ;) I just want to put out the newbie view. I can remember trawling through sites like these before I moved to Spain and thankfully, most people were saying "expect 15 euros" so I was able to work out the minimum I could live on and decide if Madrid was do-able. That's all I want to do for others. By the time I'd moved here - 2005 - it was 18 euros an hour (I was ecstatic  :)) I've never worked in academies, always private or agencies, but it seems a bit soul-destroying from the one I pass every day.

You're right, having a TEFL doesn't mean you're automatically able to teach. And, sadly, nor does experience. I've seen teachers who have been here for many years and they're rubbish - I know one who spends all his class talking (not the students), for example, and others who don't prepare because they're "not paid for that", just for the hour in the classroom. Ultimately, it's the students who get screwed - the agency charges the same to the company for the lesson, regardless of the teacher. If a newbie is a good teacher, why shouldn't they get the same as someone who has been teaching for many years? (Personally, my TEFL was worth it's weight in gold both for getting my feet in the door and giving me some teaching experience before I was let loose, altho' the actually course was a nightmare. And of course, dealing with so many students since then has been a bigger learning curve.)

A heartfelt apology for spelling your name wrong, Shawn. I have a lot of respect for you and Madridteacher as I've seen you both on various websites over the years and know that you both have a very professional view of teaching English. I also apologise if my posts have read as if I don't believe what either of you are saying. That is not the case. I merely want to point out the opposite part of the spectrum, which is that high wages are achievable - but there's a lot of work behind them.

Offline SRedw

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Re: Teaching Rates
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 04:40:20 PM »
lizziee,

I am so glad that we are on the same page and what happens is reading someone's words is not the same as talking to that person.  Now, I do agree on many, many things and you have said more interesting things as well.  I am glad that you enjoyed your TEFL course and that it helped you.

I am also all for being realistic and it does take years to reach the high paying jobs.  We all have to pay our dues and continue moving forward.

Don't worry about spelling my name wrong.  The winke face is my way of saying that it's not a problem at all.

Please continue posting because I like reading whatyou have to say.

Shawn