Topic: Deportation scare (Read 9155 times)

cadykat · « **on:** January 14, 2005, 05:51:26 PM »

hello all,
well I´m here to share my crazy story of going to Belfast Ireland this new years to visit my boyfriend. As a lot of you know I´m living in Valencia and am teaching here where I met my boyfriend (irish), another teacher. So he invited me to Belfast for new years to meet his family and see the lovley greenery... anyways i have obviously over stayed my visting visa and am teaching illegaly.. when I went through UK immigration entering into Belfast on the 30th of Jan I was stopped and interrogated for 3 hours. It wasnt horrible, the man was very nice but a lot of questions. I answered them all true (mistake) and admitting to the fact that I am living here and working here illegally... they then called my boyfriend and did the same interview with him.. to see if our stories collaberated... after about 3 hours they told me that they would be letting me in under temporal entrance but that they will be holding my passport until my depature from Belfast and that im to not travel anywhere (such as our 2 day planned trip to Dublin). They told me that when I get my passport back that I will have a big X over my passport showing that entrance was denied and that in the future I will have problems ever getting back into the UK. Not only that but when I cross immigration back into Alicante Spain I will probably be refused entrance and shipped back home on the first plane.. if there isnt flights available I will be put in a holding cell (most likely situation). So me and the boyfriend spent the week thinking it was my last and tried to enjoy what wasnt ruined by the thought of what was coming. I left back for Spain on the 6th which is Los Reyes and man if luck wasnt at my side... there wasnt any immigration officers that day because of the holiday!!! I walked right in!!!! I couldnt believe it, I was cacating my pants (excuse the language!) I do however still have this ugly X on my passport but I will take care of that later when I return home. I just thought I would pass this story on. If your thinking about entering into UK illegally I would think twice and if for some reason you were ever questioned NEVER mention that your here working illegally- I would just play stupid and say that ¨like mommy and daddy have a lot of money for you to have a super long vacation¨.... well luck to all!!!
ciao
katy

mlwalton · « **Reply #1 on:** January 14, 2005, 08:02:24 PM »

Hey Katy,

iAye Carumba Dios Mio! Thanks for sharing that though....man I would have been freakin' out....

I have a question for you. Was your passport stamped when you entered Spain and that's how they knew that you had overstayed your visa? I ask this because sometimes my passport gets stamped, sometimes it doesn't so if they caught it because of the stamp - very scary :ph34r: Glad you made it back into Spain though....

Salud!

Michelle

takanohana · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2005, 09:30:06 AM »

Hey Katy...

maybe everybody knows who you are, but you dont say where you're from. I take it you're from the States?

My experience of things (not in europe) is that its easy to work illegally, but if you overstay a visa thats a completely different story.

Sounds like you had a very lucky escape

Shiloh · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2005, 09:54:43 AM »

I posted in another thread that when I went to the US over Christmas, the people from Delta airlines and security checked and verified my passport and asked to see my DNI (residency card). Hopefully the Spanish gov. will be cracking down on illegals. Sorry to say this CadyKat as you are here illegally and seem like a nice person, but I see too many illegals here as a detriment to the economy and society.

Megan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2005, 11:57:58 AM »

I had a similar experience as Shiloh when I flew USairways at Christmas. When they saw that I had a ticket to return to Spain in January they asked to see either my Visa or residence card. I don't know what they would have done with someone who didn't have their papers in order.

takanohana · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2005, 01:52:17 PM »

\"but I see too many illegals here as a detriment to the economy and society...\"

Shiloh,

I wonder if you could explain more about your point of view.

Do illegal english teachers in Spain pay tax? I know in Japan that even if you are working illegally as a teacher usually tax is paid.

If english teachers in spain are anything like those in japan, then most money is spent on booze, partying, and the occasional language class...

Im wondering how english teachers working illegally would be a detriment...?

cadykat · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2005, 05:48:14 PM »

shiloh-
I do agree with you that it isn´t good for the economy but the truth is the rules are ridiculous I think if someone is willing to give a contract for a native speaker and all the paper work falls into order we should be able to teach. My boss really wants to get my papers for me but its too difficult and after this teaching year ends Im going to return to the states based on lack of money here. I was on my way to get my papers but since im going home it would be ridiculous to get it now as I think it takes over a year or 2 to get them.. anways I did have a lot of luck and now the problem is that to return home a round trip ticket is a lot cheaper then buying a one way so if I get stopped I dont really know what to say.. I´m not going to return but I also cant offord buying a 1 way, any suggestions on where i can get cheap tickets back to the states??? and yes my passport was stamped and thats how they knew i over stayed my visa...
cheers all!!!

Shiloh · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2005, 07:17:57 PM »

Quote

I wonder if you could explain more about your point of view.

Okay, here is my view of it....

Illegal immigration is detrimental to a society because of the stresses it puts on MANY aspects of that society.

Infrastructure:
A person working illegally does not pay taxes that go toward funding infrastructure (transportation, public programs, etc.) The argument that all this money is put back into the economy for me is not valid for me because many people send it back to their country of origin to support families.

Schools:
The public school system is taxed because they become overcrowded and underfunded.

Crime:
Because a large percent of illegal immigrants are unskilled, uneducated, and/or do not speak the language of the host country they do not find work or they work in illegal activities (topmanta, drug distribution, etc.) or simply resort to robbery and theft.

Lower wages:
Because employers can hire illegals at a premium price (I see this a lot in construction) the salaries of documented and legal workers stay down because of the lower price paid to illegals.

Higher unemployment:
Obviously if a company is willing to hire an illegal there is one less job for a legal person.

Social Problems:
The social strain caused by illegal immigration is hard to argue, due to the fact it differs with each individual. Competition for or the loss of a job and/or other benefits is a good example of social stress. The use of an individual's own tax money to pay for a foreigner's family can also burden an individual. Lesser examples include the problems of racism and religious hatred. Xenophobia is not an uncommon thing in areas where illegal immigration is a major problem.

Medical:
The rate of infectious disease grows. When I came to Catalunya, I was required to have a document signed by my doctor saying I had no infectious nor communicable diseases. What happens if a man from Africa just to give an example comes illegally to Spain and has hepatitis just for arguments sake. In the end you get an outbreak of hepatitis. If he comes legally, it´s already known he has hepatitis and can be treated for it before entering or can be refused entry in the interest of public health.
Also as everyone knows, in Spain nobody is refused (or should be at least) medical attention. An illegal not paying taxes leaves the government picking up the tab which is ultimately passed on to taxpayers.

If I have time later, I´ll try and elaborate a little better. Sorry for not having presented this intelligently. My idea was to put all of this in a decent form and tie it together, but my brain is a little fried right now and I need to get working on some stuff for one of my projects.

mlwalton · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2005, 09:04:37 PM »

Quick question for ya Shiloh, are you including Americans and other non-EU native English speakers who come to Spain to teach English in the grouping of illegal immigrants?

Shiloh · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2005, 09:53:52 PM »

Sorry, I thought about putting that in and spaced it off....

I would include anyone who comes illegally whether they be Russian, Asian, American, or South American. And any type of work, I don´t want it to sound like singling out any race or teachers specifically. And a disclaimer about this thread. It is not meant to be a hate thread about anything...just some stimulating conversation that may get people thinking and debating.

takanohana · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2005, 10:56:24 AM »

thanks for your comments Shiloh...

I agree with most of your comments but I would said though that in my experience there is a big difference between those unskilled or 'bottom-of-the-rung' illegals, and the english teacher working illegally.

English teachers in japan, even if they are working illegally, usually pay tax. They are usually young (ish), single, and only over for the short term. So things like sending money home to support families, or even family members coming over to join them dont really happen.

And I think other nationalities would be hard pressed to beat the amount of money that the Kiwis, Aussies, Scots and Poms (that I know anyway) spend on alcohol...

Shiloh · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:17:30 AM »

Quote

there is a big difference between those unskilled or 'bottom-of-the-rung' illegals, and the english teacher working illegally.

I´m not saying that any person fits into ALL of those categories at the same time, but illegal is illegal and I´m pretty sure that most of the illegal English teachers here haven´t sent in an anonymous check for the amount of their taxes because contributing to the well being of the society has been tugging on their conscience.

Like I said, this wasn´t necessarily toward English teachers, but illegals are illegals and my point of view is that too much of it is not good for a society. I don´t think one can do a general policy on it, but you can´t really say \"oh well, since you´re an English teacher it´s okay\".

SRedw · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2005, 11:21:02 AM »

Shiloh,

Your post was interesting indeed. But, you, like may others, seem to place the blame solely on the immigrant. :huh:

Now, if the Spanish government wouldn't turn a blind eye and really monitored business, then the problems wouldn't be there as much. that's why there are so many illegal English teachers in Madrid, because comapnies hire us and they save a bundle by not paying taxes on us. It's a two way street. So, the blame cannot be placed only on the immigrant.

Have a great day,

Shawn

zorrasabia · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:09:25 PM »

Hi all,
I have a problem with trying to reach a perspective, because I can see both sides! As a Brit. I'm very glad that the U.K. Govt. has got to grips with security at airports, which matters to all of us! The unpleasant aspect is, tho' that immigration officials have been filmed, and shown on U.K. T.V. being very suspicious and hostile to some black would- be visitors, on occasion!

Support for a tough stance has come from many U.K. citizens, including our farmers, who know that illegal 'bush meat' and other banned foodstuffs is brought in, in significant quantities, posing serious risk of disease to people and farm animals, should the bugs escape! Drugs are another problem!

have found the apparent relaxed stance of Spain a big surprise, (! was told there are many' illegal aliens' in Barcelona, whilst there in August). We, in Europe are s'posed to be tightening right up, in respect to knowing who is in our respective countries, and who has the right to stay, since 9/11! When travelling by plane or train, I like to think it's as safe as humans can make it! Spain seems to put all of us at risk, if CadyKat's experience on her trip back, should be a common occurence when no-one was on duty at immigration ! Remember the Lockerbie bombing? It's thought the bomb was put on the plane at Malta, well within the European boundary!

I also know that getting into the states, even as a legal visitor now requires fingerprinting and having your face photographed on entry! Not easy to get in there to work illegally, if you were to go from Europe to New York, for example! If it were, would U.S. citizens feel very safe?

However, I hate the fact that the E.U. - a notion I support- now distinguishes between 'Europeans and 'the rest', including would-be English teachers, where-ever you come from. We'd have to tackle the idea of the 'nation state' or of 'continental federations' to remove that barrier!
I'm not clear as to how we could both lower the barriers, and yet expect our U.K.Govt. to provide health care, education,(free of charge, paid by taxes!), social welfare and housing etc. without an idea of numbers! I wish I could work that one out! For example, T.B. is a very serious disease in the U.K. again! Its re-emergence has been traced to immigrants and travellers from third world countries, many of whom have not taken advantage of healthcare, due to 'illegal 'status in the U.K.

Having said all that, I don't personally begrudge anyone getting a TEFL job, in Europe, and would prefer that if jobs are available, people should be allowed in to do them, provided Europeans can all find work, too! I would hope tho' that we could keep out those very few 'illegal immigrants' who mean us all harm! How do we resolve all of the above, to the satisfaction of everyone, without draconian immigration legislation?
One day, we might have a world free of border controls and laws which emphasise 'difference' rather than 'similarity' between people! I'd like to see all artificial barriers removed! But, I'm not sure how I'd do it!
Perhaps a world Govt. would be the best solution?
Regards,
Zarrasabia.
Regards,
Zorrasabia.

Shiloh · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2005, 02:17:19 PM »

Shawn,

I don´t place the blame solely on immigrants. The post was not about assigning blame, it was simply a little bit of pointing out some of the problems of illegal immigration. This is precisely why I put a disclaimer post here.

Quote

And a disclaimer about this thread. It is not meant to be a hate thread about anything...just some stimulating conversation that may get people thinking and debating.

I also thought it might bring a little life to the board.

mlwalton · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2005, 03:13:20 PM »

I think the discussion going on here is great.

In my idealistic optimism, wouldn't it be great if there were a temporary visa (none such exists currently that I know of) for Native English speakers to come for a year and teach English and then go? Or maybe renew on a yearly basis? Too bad the immigration office doesn't have such a temporary visa for English teachers. I say this for many reasons obviously, but also, when I was teaching in Prague even though I was illegal, my employer still took out for taxes and paid taxes on my employment. Don't ask me how that worked exactly, but that's what happened.

So who has the contacts at immigration to suggest the new visa? Should we start a petition?

I think it's a stroke of brilliance personally

but I might be somewhat biased on that.

Salud!

Michelle

cadykat · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2005, 12:34:31 PM »

WOW,
did I strike up something here or what!!! no I´m glad to get to see everybodies opinion on here.. and I think thats a perfect idea that you could get a temporary 1 year visa to teach english somewhere in europe, with the right qulifications of course!!
it was funny because when I was leaving the Alicante airport I had a friend come and meet me in case they told me to go back to the states i could have at least given him my keys to pack up my stuff and ship it to me.. and when I walked out he had the most puzzled look on his face and he was like QUEEEEE , PERO QUE PASA!!! WHERE IS THE IMMIGRATION!!! i couldnt stop laughing because i was like MY GOD only in spain does immigration take the day off because, like its a holiday man!!!!!! anyways 1 question i did ask that i still havnt gotten an answer to is cheap tickets back to the states, where to look???
katy

bluebwoy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2005, 01:25:19 PM »

Hola post!

Just one question, do you vote in spain shilo? And if so who do you support in the spanish government? :huh:

I must admit I like the fact that therte is dialogue in the forum again. I haven't visited for a long time but it seems to be chugging along.

It seems the tone has changed here though. Before when I came to this site it was encouraging people to come and look for an oportunity for cultural and personal enrichment. It seems that that this spirit has changed however. If I was somebody who was thinking about coming to live or work in spain as an english teacher this post would definately make me uncomfortable and potentially dissuade me from even attempting an an adventure to Spain.

I guess I'm sad to see that people would be discouraged from expanding their cultural horizons and the chance to explore new perspectives on the world as we know it.

Its interesting to note as well that spain's government has been making a big effort to make it possible for the thousands and thousands of illegals here to regularize their status in spain. From my persepective a rather positive thing considering many of the illegal immigrants who come here work in jobs that most spanish do not want.

I say come on over english teachers. Will you have success (i've known many who haven't and some who have), will you have immigration problems? Who knows. You may, you may not.

bye for now

treatment · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:12:54 PM »

Quote from: Shiloh on January 15, 2005, 09:54:43 AM

I posted in another thread that when I went to the US over Christmas, the people from Delta airlines and security checked and verified my passport and asked to see my DNI (residency card). Hopefully the Spanish gov. will be cracking down on illegals. Sorry to say this CadyKat as you are here illegally and seem like a nice person, but I see too many illegals here as a detriment to the economy and society.

And precisely what right do you have to judge "illegals"? Holy crap, get off your high horse!!

BrandinhoGaucho · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:24:39 PM »

Quote from: Shiloh on January 15, 2005, 07:17:57 PM

Infrastructure:
A person working illegally does not pay taxes that go toward funding infrastructure (transportation, public programs, etc.) The argument that all this money is put back into the economy for me is not valid for me because many people send it back to their country of origin to support families.

I would love nothing more than for Spain to: 1) legitimize my presence there, thus allowing me to pay taxes and contribute to their economy, and 2) pay me a wage that would add credibility to your notion that I would have nearly enough to send anywhere besides my landlord.

Quote from: Shiloh on January 15, 2005, 07:17:57 PM

Crime:
Because a large percent of illegal immigrants are unskilled, uneducated, and/or do not speak the language of the host country they do not find work or they work in illegal activities (topmanta, drug distribution, etc.) or simply resort to robbery and theft.

Which country are we talking about? The majority of people I know that want to move to Spain, myself included, have been inspired by higher education to do so. That being said, I'd be interested to hear anything that indicated the contrary.

Quote from: Shiloh on January 15, 2005, 07:17:57 PM

Higher unemployment:
Obviously if a company is willing to hire an illegal there is one less job for a legal person

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in this case and assume you meant to exclude schools and/or companies calling for native speakers of whatever language needed to teach. In fact, I agree with you mostly on this with just a few minor exceptions.

Quote from: Shiloh on January 15, 2005, 07:17:57 PM

Medical:
The rate of infectious disease grows. When I came to Catalunya, I was required to have a document signed by my doctor saying I had no infectious nor communicable diseases. What happens if a man from Africa just to give an example comes illegally to Spain and has hepatitis just for arguments sake. In the end you get an outbreak of hepatitis. If he comes legally, it´s already known he has hepatitis and can be treated for it before entering or can be refused entry in the interest of public health.
Also as everyone knows, in Spain nobody is refused (or should be at least) medical attention. An illegal not paying taxes leaves the government picking up the tab which is ultimately passed on to taxpayers.

And this is how I plan to support all of the medical interpreters that Spain has to offer. You know... since they're law-abiding, Spanish-speaking citizens and all. As a matter of fact, here's a sample of a travel itinerary for Spain:

1) Load your body with every communicable disease known to man.
2) Apply to earn your TEFL degree in Spain.
3) Buy one-way ticket to Spain, participate in said program, and embark on a job search.
4) Cough profusely upon and share beverages with anybody that doesn't seem to support Spanish infrastructure and is engaged in some sort of heathenistic act of law-breaking (see "Crime").
5) Organize a field trip to your local hospital and ask for an interpreter in the worst Spanish accent you can muster. #5 shouldn't be hard since as a foreigner, statistics suggest that you probably don't speak Spanish anyway (see "Crime" again).
6) Feel guilty because Spain picked up your tab, but proud that you supported a Spaniard that will in turn pick up Spain's tab.

Jonniboy · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2009, 11:47:09 PM »

Quote from: treatment on March 03, 2009, 05:12:54 PM

And precisely what right do you have to judge "illegals"? Holy crap, get off your high horse!!

Cadykat is indeed a nice person, though as she's my ex I am a bit biased

I got an e-mail from her a few weeks back and the poor lass is stuck in some boring admin job in the twin cities and wishing badly that she could go back to Spain. Really situations like this do need a compromise between protecting the jobs of the locals and allowing mechanisms for people with the appropriate qualifications to compete and contribute legally. Even if this takes the form of short term visas of a few years duration then it has to be better than the current situation surely? Shiloh is partly right that illegal workers, through desperation, are usually willing to work for peanuts thus driving down wages for those who are legal but on the other hand, I've never been convinced that a person with goof ESL qualifications from USA/Canada/Australia etc is somehow more worthy of a job than a British/Irish backpacker whose idea of experiencing Spain will mostly involve examing the inside of toilet bowls after too many San Miguels at the local Irish bar.

Author Topic: Deportation scare (Read 9155 times)